5 ms·

How about completely blind job admissions, school admissions, etc. No names, no race, no age, etc. Just raw test scores. Test them against problem solving ski

How about completely blind job admissions, school admissions, etc. No names, no race, no age, etc. Just raw test scores. Test them against problem solving skills objectively, etc.

mehrdadn 8y ago
I mean this still disadvantages poorer people, who don't have money to fund their kids' preparations for exams. The point of holistic admissions is to try to factor things like that in.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
gph 8y ago
Goodheart's law. Besides what employer wants to hire someone based just on their intelligence scores? If someone is an uncooperative egoist prick I don't think many companies will want to hire them no matter their test scores.
- bobthepanda 8y ago
  Pure test prioritization also encourages rote learning and optimizing for the test, which is not great for creativity.
skrap 8y ago
Did you read the article? The fixer just paid the folks administering the test to let someone else take it, or to let them fix the answers after the fact. Also, agree with the person who mentioned Goodhart's Law.
LanceH 8y ago
Do you really think these schools would have the same prestige and endowments if money and connections didn't get peole in? People want the prestige and connections of a legacy/endowment driven school, but don't seem to realize that it comes with legacy admissions.
umeshunni 8y ago
That's how college admissions in most asian countries work. You're get a roll number, you write a test, a list gets published that ranks all the roll numbers, sometimes with scores. Colleges offer admissions to anyone who scored between ranks 1-N. At more elite schools N is small (e.g. 100), but in lower ranking schools N is large (e.g. 100000+). Affirmative action is practiced by having different Ns for different disadvantaged groups (i.e if you are a lower caste, N=1000, but for general admissions, N=100) The downsides of this system are that it still fails to eliminate economic biases (i.e a student from a well to do family can hire tutors who help them test prep better) and that it's impossible for the school to control the makeup of a class - e.g in a year I was in school, a new test prep school opened up in a city and students from that school scored significantly higher than others in the admissions test. So, about 50% of the incoming class were students who went to that test prep school.
- bobthepanda 8y ago
  At least in East Asia, this also results in a highly test-optimized education system. This can result in multiple negative side effects, such as test anxiety, stifled creativity, and elevated suicide rates among students. Most East Asian countries have considered revising their educational systems. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2149978/inside-asias-pressure-cooker-exam-sytem-which-region-has-it-worst https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2149978/insi...
rxhernandez 8y ago
Then you eliminate high schools like the one I went to where, we spent 10s of hours in labs per week to be competitive for college. How are you going to incorporate electrical engineering or materials science into a standardized exam and meaningfully compare our results to our peers?
tyler- 8y ago
The wealthy have the income to test prep for high scores. The poor don’t necessarily have the time or money to focus as much on test prep as the rich. Your method may exclude a population of the poor.

How about completely blind job admissions, school admissions, etc. No names, no race, no age, etc. Just raw test scores. Test them against problem solving skills objectively, etc.

mehrdadn 8y ago

I mean this still disadvantages poorer people, who don't have money to fund their kids' preparations for exams. The point of holistic admissions is to try to factor things like that in.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

gph 8y ago

Goodheart's law. Besides what employer wants to hire someone based just on their intelligence scores? If someone is an uncooperative egoist prick I don't think many companies will want to hire them no matter their test scores.

bobthepanda 8y ago
Pure test prioritization also encourages rote learning and optimizing for the test, which is not great for creativity.

skrap 8y ago

Did you read the article? The fixer just paid the folks administering the test to let someone else take it, or to let them fix the answers after the fact. Also, agree with the person who mentioned Goodhart's Law.

LanceH 8y ago

Do you really think these schools would have the same prestige and endowments if money and connections didn't get peole in? People want the prestige and connections of a legacy/endowment driven school, but don't seem to realize that it comes with legacy admissions.

umeshunni 8y ago

That's how college admissions in most asian countries work. You're get a roll number, you write a test, a list gets published that ranks all the roll numbers, sometimes with scores. Colleges offer admissions to anyone who scored between ranks 1-N. At more elite schools N is small (e.g. 100), but in lower ranking schools N is large (e.g. 100000+). Affirmative action is practiced by having different Ns for different disadvantaged groups (i.e if you are a lower caste, N=1000, but for general admissions, N=100) The downsides of this system are that it still fails to eliminate economic biases (i.e a student from a well to do family can hire tutors who help them test prep better) and that it's impossible for the school to control the makeup of a class - e.g in a year I was in school, a new test prep school opened up in a city and students from that school scored significantly higher than others in the admissions test. So, about 50% of the incoming class were students who went to that test prep school.

bobthepanda 8y ago
At least in East Asia, this also results in a highly test-optimized education system. This can result in multiple negative side effects, such as test anxiety, stifled creativity, and elevated suicide rates among students. Most East Asian countries have considered revising their educational systems. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2149978/inside-asias-pressure-cooker-exam-sytem-which-region-has-it-worst https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2149978/insi...

rxhernandez 8y ago

Then you eliminate high schools like the one I went to where, we spent 10s of hours in labs per week to be competitive for college. How are you going to incorporate electrical engineering or materials science into a standardized exam and meaningfully compare our results to our peers?

tyler- 8y ago

The wealthy have the income to test prep for high scores. The poor don’t necessarily have the time or money to focus as much on test prep as the rich. Your method may exclude a population of the poor.