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This is why, to me, the entire debate about affirmative action at elite colleges is a complete red herring. The amount of kids, regardless of race, who can be c
by 40acres 8y ago
This is why, to me, the entire debate about affirmative action at elite colleges is a complete red herring. The amount of kids, regardless of race, who can be considered "deserving" of a spot has been reduced more so by legacy admissions and these bribes than by any effort of individual institutions to even out racial or gender demographics.
- NavyNuke 8y agoThat is why it stings for poor or working class Asians and non-Jewish Whites...you don't get the affirmative action or legacy leg up...
- jachee 8y agoOi. What's with the antisemitism?
- NavyNuke 8y agoUh...that wasn't antisemetic...when talking about Ivy league representation, Jews are disproportionately represented which is why I distinguished between "Jewish Whites" and Non-Jewish Whites...
- jachee 8y agoBigger question: Why bring race up at all, then? Class has demonstrably larger effect. The 1% are very disproportionately represented in the Ivy League, too.
- mikemotherwell 8y agoIs that how the system works? I'm not American, but it seems like race does get factored in. Or am I just sorely mistaken?
- _red 8y agoA couple of interesting questions: 1. Is being Jewish a race or a religion? 2. Being Jewish is also strongly correlated to class. 44% of Jews earn 100K+. Thats compared to ~20% for Christian, 19% Catholic, 20% Islam. (Interestingly Hindus are close at 36%). Source: http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/income-distribution/ http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/income-dis...
- jdoliner 8y agoI could be wrong, but I don't think Jews get much of an affirmative action boost either.
- normalperson 8y agothink twice http://www.unz.com/runz/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/ http://www.unz.com/runz/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/
- jdoliner 8y agoGood link, thank you.
- pfisch 8y agoThis is about anti-Jewish discrimination specifically. This is pro meritocracy. Not affirmative action.
- richardhod 8y agoThat article on first reading appears to be a balanced and well-argued article, but it concerns me that other articles on that site appear to be literally concerned with Holocaust denial and are generally israel-obsessed; alongside other far right wing and outlandish conspiracy theories. Therefore I'm sceptical and would wish to fact check further. See https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Unz_Review https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Unz_Review
- jonny_eh 8y agoI suspect you've never heard of the "Jewish Quota" that capped the number of Jews allowed in various schools: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_quota https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_quota
- Rebelgecko 8y agoHow do Jews get a leg up from affirmative action and legacies when the application doesn't ask for your religion (any more) and there were quotas in the past to limit the number of Jewish students?
- richardhod 8y agoTo be fair, whether there is affirmative action or bias or not, characteristic names give a lot away for this religious-ethnic group, as with other groups.
- LanceH 8y agoThese universities don't have the prestige without the legacy admissions (and alumni donors). There are tons of universities, but it's hard to say anyone "deserves" a spot over someone's family who helped build it.
- jonny_eh 8y agoHow is a school prestigious by allowing undeserving[1] rich kids in? [1] In the sense that they're not academically or athletically at the top of the heap.
- exolymph 8y ago"The daughter of [so-and-so famous person] attends here" is a huge draw. Think of Harvard and its ilk as finishing schools and networking groups.
- mLuby 8y agoBecause riches and prestige are often found in the same family, so a school or company with an aggregation of such families' progeny is able to reflect some of their shine. Not saying it's a morally correct, but that's 's how (American) society works. We aren't good at predicting a child's success so we fall back on historical (familial) data.
- anyfoo 8y agoI really don't get how that can reasonably be considered a better predictor of a successful university degree than previous grades and application tests, without some serious mental gymnastics.
- mLuby 8y agoIt's not that hard. Assume Richie Rich and Freckles Friendly are innately equally good students. Freckles almost certainly has additional stressors in his life, since he maintains his scholarship(s), works outside of class, frets over his student loans, and has to be careful how he spends what little cash he has. In contrast, Richie has a pretty carefree existence which he likely spends developing relationships with other rich kids. He can study if he needs to, pay for private tutors, etc. Plus, from the perspective of University The Business™, Richie is more likely to inherit wealth and business opportunities that make him more likely to donate to the school in the future; he's a better investment than Freckles.
- jjoonathan 8y agoIf you're building a picture in your head, you can check it against actual numbers here: https://features.thecrimson.com/2015/freshman-survey/makeup/ https://features.thecrimson.com/2015/freshman-survey/makeup/
- 40acres 8y agoThanks for the numbers. This confirms some suspicions but also refutes others: not a lot of legacy kids at Harvard, but their parents are still largely wealthy and mostly White / Asian.
- pmart123 8y agoI think a greater amount of legacy candidates typically apply early acceptance, which throws off the pure percentages. Presumably, candidates with large donor backing apply early, but schools typically give these applicants a bump for the inherent commitment. I've recently thought another interesting study would be to look at admittance rates for NYC prep schools. I have friends right now paying crazy amounts of money for even pre-school. Part of the argument is the acceptance rates into elite colleges. I recently wondered how many of these kids are going because of large donations, which artificially inflates the stats for prospective parents who plan to get their kids into college on merit.