4 ms·

Probably southwest pilots. If it’s not analog it’s too much for them.

iforgotpassword 8y ago
Well this shit doesn't sound any better: 1565207 At cruise flight, our Wi-Fi stopped working. I then saw that I was unable to access the Pilot Mobile app. Since I do not routinely copy the flight plan to iBook or acrobat (we are not required to do this), I was unable to access the flight plan. I've lost Wi-Fi before but not had this problem. Maybe it's a 737max thing. My First Officer had a copy on iBook and airdropped it to me. Later we were able to restore the Wi-Fi and I could login to pilot mobile but the [flight plan] was not there anymore. It's time we make radio with the ATC VoIP. Just run an asterisk on the plane.
- NikolaNovak 8y ago
  Boggles the mind on several levels: 1. That airlines would use consumer tablets without hard-copy backup as matter of procedure. I remember Air Canada announcing it and how it would save so much weight for both pilots and the airplane, and thinking... I print my Google Maps as a backup for roadtrips, I sure as heck would do it on a flight! 2. Perhaps I'm misjudging, but the tone and perspective of pilot makes me worry for their approach and technical skills. Does not routinely copy to local device before takeoff? "Maybe it's a 737max thing"? Airdropping as a solution? This does not smell off setting up for success... :<
  - addicted 8y ago
    As a non technical person, who is about to fly an 80 ton vehicle for extended distances, local backups of WiFi dependent data is not likely to be a major concern. Especially if (a) it’s not part of your extensive checklists, which would reasonably be expected to be included if it was important, and (b) you’ve lost WiFi in other planes before without losing your flight plan.
    - bredren 8y ago
      I’m a technical person and it is a major concern.
      - vultour 8y ago
        They were in cruise, which means the flight plan was already set and can be viewed on the MCDU. Sure they lost a fancy map on the ipad but that doesn't mean they suddenly don't know where to go.
        NikkiA 8y ago
        There are a number of situations where the checklist calls for reinsertion of the flightplan during flight, they would be lost in those situations.
  - untog 8y ago
    I'd be curious to know what "WiFi" means here exactly. If it means "my flight plan is stored on the internet and I didn't save a local copy" then yeah, I think that's insane. But if it's a local WiFi network it doesn't seem so weird to me. You should, in the course of day to day operation, be able to expect a WiFi router will work. Of course, it'll fail at some point, but it's not like they were cut off from the world, they could have radioed for the information if the copilot didn't have it, or something.
    - kalleboo 8y ago
      > You should, in the course of day to day operation, be able to expect a WiFi router will work. My experience with WiFi routers is the opposite. I will wire anything important.
      - gerbilly 8y ago
        Yeah me too. You know if WiFi was so awesome, wifi routers wouldn't have wires in them!
      - untog 8y ago
        I very much doubt they're using consumer grade Linksys boxes in there, though.
        kalleboo 8y ago
        Enterprise WiFi networks work better but my experience has still been far from what I'd call reliable. I'd like to say an airplane might work better as a controlled environment than an office building, but probably not if you have 300 passengers in the back, half of whom have forgotten their MiFi devices running in their carryon.
  - reacweb 8y ago
    It is called "electronic flight bag" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_flight_bag https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_flight_bag . I see it as a technical loophole that allows to gives handy tools to pilots and airlines with reduced hassles of certification processes.
  - mcv 8y ago
    I know nothing about piloting, but I would have expected a flight plan to be stored on the plane itself. Accessible directly on some screen in the cockpit or something. Why rely on consumer devices that require wifi?
fsloth 8y ago
The appeal of the 737 MAX for airlines was that it was intentionally made so that you could take crews with a 737 qualification and put them in. I.e the airlines could save money on training. The main design constraint on that bird was that it should pass most of the old paperwork so that Boeing nor airlines would need to go through expensive training and quification. Yet, they modified the plane quite a bit - but they could not modernize several systems since they would have to then go through rigorous and expensive testing. .. Nobody seems to underline this fact. I bet that's the actual reason they didn't put the automatic pitch modification system to any documentation - it would not fit on the description of "just old 737 nothing new here hop in".
- mcv 8y ago
  > The appeal of the 737 MAX for airlines was that it was intentionally made so that you could take crews with a 737 qualification and put them in. Really? Everything I heard so far sounds like the 737 MAX has a few new, unusual or counter intuitive features that require extra training, and that training material skimped on training for that. > "just old 737 nothing new here hop in" Am I correct in understanding that was a blatant lie?
  - Turbots 8y ago
    wouldnt be surprised if money was handed to the correct person at some point to ignore these facts... Save potentially millions of dollars for less training and more sales by paying off the right guy? Sounds good to us!
  - fsloth 8y ago
    Not an expert, I'm basing my comment on stuff I've learned from third party sources. It does not sound to me like lying, more like a confusion of project constraints. I.e. "make the plane better but don't touch this and this and this arbitrary system".
- usrusr 8y ago
  In short: the safety requirements for doing it properly are so high that they were artfully avoided. The aeronautical analog to byzantine password requirements that only make people susceptible to post-it password management?

Well this shit doesn't sound any better: 1565207 At cruise flight, our Wi-Fi stopped working. I then saw that I was unable to access the Pilot Mobile app. Since I do not routinely copy the flight plan to iBook or acrobat (we are not required to do this), I was unable to access the flight plan. I've lost Wi-Fi before but not had this problem. Maybe it's a 737max thing. My First Officer had a copy on iBook and airdropped it to me. Later we were able to restore the Wi-Fi and I could login to pilot mobile but the [flight plan] was not there anymore. It's time we make radio with the ATC VoIP. Just run an asterisk on the plane.

NikolaNovak 8y ago
Boggles the mind on several levels: 1. That airlines would use consumer tablets without hard-copy backup as matter of procedure. I remember Air Canada announcing it and how it would save so much weight for both pilots and the airplane, and thinking... I print my Google Maps as a backup for roadtrips, I sure as heck would do it on a flight! 2. Perhaps I'm misjudging, but the tone and perspective of pilot makes me worry for their approach and technical skills. Does not routinely copy to local device before takeoff? "Maybe it's a 737max thing"? Airdropping as a solution? This does not smell off setting up for success... :<
- addicted 8y ago
  As a non technical person, who is about to fly an 80 ton vehicle for extended distances, local backups of WiFi dependent data is not likely to be a major concern. Especially if (a) it’s not part of your extensive checklists, which would reasonably be expected to be included if it was important, and (b) you’ve lost WiFi in other planes before without losing your flight plan.
  - bredren 8y ago
    I’m a technical person and it is a major concern.
    - vultour 8y ago
      They were in cruise, which means the flight plan was already set and can be viewed on the MCDU. Sure they lost a fancy map on the ipad but that doesn't mean they suddenly don't know where to go.
      - NikkiA 8y ago
        There are a number of situations where the checklist calls for reinsertion of the flightplan during flight, they would be lost in those situations.
- untog 8y ago
  I'd be curious to know what "WiFi" means here exactly. If it means "my flight plan is stored on the internet and I didn't save a local copy" then yeah, I think that's insane. But if it's a local WiFi network it doesn't seem so weird to me. You should, in the course of day to day operation, be able to expect a WiFi router will work. Of course, it'll fail at some point, but it's not like they were cut off from the world, they could have radioed for the information if the copilot didn't have it, or something.
  - kalleboo 8y ago
    > You should, in the course of day to day operation, be able to expect a WiFi router will work. My experience with WiFi routers is the opposite. I will wire anything important.
    - gerbilly 8y ago
      Yeah me too. You know if WiFi was so awesome, wifi routers wouldn't have wires in them!
    - untog 8y ago
      I very much doubt they're using consumer grade Linksys boxes in there, though.
      - kalleboo 8y ago
        Enterprise WiFi networks work better but my experience has still been far from what I'd call reliable. I'd like to say an airplane might work better as a controlled environment than an office building, but probably not if you have 300 passengers in the back, half of whom have forgotten their MiFi devices running in their carryon.
- reacweb 8y ago
  It is called "electronic flight bag" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_flight_bag https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_flight_bag . I see it as a technical loophole that allows to gives handy tools to pilots and airlines with reduced hassles of certification processes.
- mcv 8y ago
  I know nothing about piloting, but I would have expected a flight plan to be stored on the plane itself. Accessible directly on some screen in the cockpit or something. Why rely on consumer devices that require wifi?

fsloth 8y ago

The appeal of the 737 MAX for airlines was that it was intentionally made so that you could take crews with a 737 qualification and put them in. I.e the airlines could save money on training. The main design constraint on that bird was that it should pass most of the old paperwork so that Boeing nor airlines would need to go through expensive training and quification. Yet, they modified the plane quite a bit - but they could not modernize several systems since they would have to then go through rigorous and expensive testing. .. Nobody seems to underline this fact. I bet that's the actual reason they didn't put the automatic pitch modification system to any documentation - it would not fit on the description of "just old 737 nothing new here hop in".

mcv 8y ago
> The appeal of the 737 MAX for airlines was that it was intentionally made so that you could take crews with a 737 qualification and put them in. Really? Everything I heard so far sounds like the 737 MAX has a few new, unusual or counter intuitive features that require extra training, and that training material skimped on training for that. > "just old 737 nothing new here hop in" Am I correct in understanding that was a blatant lie?
- Turbots 8y ago
  wouldnt be surprised if money was handed to the correct person at some point to ignore these facts... Save potentially millions of dollars for less training and more sales by paying off the right guy? Sounds good to us!
- fsloth 8y ago
  Not an expert, I'm basing my comment on stuff I've learned from third party sources. It does not sound to me like lying, more like a confusion of project constraints. I.e. "make the plane better but don't touch this and this and this arbitrary system".
usrusr 8y ago
In short: the safety requirements for doing it properly are so high that they were artfully avoided. The aeronautical analog to byzantine password requirements that only make people susceptible to post-it password management?