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> No, diabetics have an elevated insulin levels for hours after a meal. Like, after 4 hours it's still at the level a non-diabetic peaks at after 0.5-1 hour. Ea

> No, diabetics have an elevated insulin levels for hours after a meal. Like, after 4 hours it's still at the level a non-diabetic peaks at after 0.5-1 hour. Eating many meals will keep your insulin levels high all-day. I have repeatedly said in this thread this doesn't apply to diabetics, who do have an insulin pathology. Diabetics do need to worry about insulin, non-diabetics do not. > Your body is very bad at burning fat in the presence of insulin. Meal time is only important as to not keep your insulin level elevated all the time. There is no science that disambiguates between large spikes followed by zero food in take (IF), and small spikes continually at the same calorie levels. Please feel free to send any study you think does. > It's reversible by either supplementing more food Again this is only relevant to the post-prandial window. If you are overweight, and have a slow metabolism, and respond by eating a lot of food, you will not successfully "speed up" your metabolism outside of the prandial window. If you are overweight and start dieting, your metabolism with slow down, but the evidence overwhelmingly shows exercise counteracts this, and that the slowdown is reversible when your body fat percentage lowers. > If you are eating all the time, the short term situation becomes the long term situation, not barely on 24 hour periods but for years on end. This is especially true for diabetics and pre-diabetics, as their insulin level will lower way slower. No, this is only true if you are eating all the time and also eating too many calories. . Again, please send a link to a study you think says otherwise. > While I'm not a fan of isocaloric studys, this should work, yes. Why are you not a fan of the only kind of study that could possibly prove your point? And why hasn't this study ever been successfully completed? Why have studies that attempted to do this been unable to show any difference in outcomes? > I'm genuinely interested as to what your understanding of insulins / glucagons effect on your body's ability to access fat is. I don't really know what you're implying here, but I suspect you are still getting hamstrung by the prandial window. Yes, insulin can block your ability to access fat in the short term, no it will not in the long term, and it does not do so entirely either. If you are eating the same number of calories and thus constantly releasing insulin you are blocking some, but not all, lipolysis. Lipolysis is not a binary, nor is insulin release. You can have both of them happening at the same time, even though insulin is blocking some of the lipolysis.

JanSt 8y ago
> I have repeatedly said in this thread this doesn't apply to diabetics, who do have an insulin pathology. Diabetics do need to worry about insulin, non-diabetics do not. Point taken :-) > There is no science that disambiguates between large spikes followed by zero food in take (IF), and small spikes continually at the same calorie levels. Please feel free to send any study you think does. and > No, this is only true if you are eating all the time and also eating too many calories. . Again, please send a link to a study you think says otherwise. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4079942/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4079942/ > Why are you not a fan of the only kind of study that could possibly prove your point? Because you're on a circadian clock with lots of hormonal regulations that have huge influence on you. Most people won't feel as hungry on a fat-heavy diet as on a low-calorie (mostly low-fat) diet. Long-term adherence to low-calorie diets is just not working out for most people. Yes, calorie-restriction works in basically every living thing to prolong life. No, people will not do it. > And why hasn't this study ever been successfully completed? Why have studies that attempted to do this been unable to show any difference in outcomes? There is evidence. Please don't tell me there is conclusive evidence on anything related to nutrition. The second statement is not true, differences have been shown. > I don't really know what you're implying here, but I suspect you are still getting hamstrung by the prandial window. Yes, insulin can block your ability to access fat in the short term, no it will not in the long term, and it does not do so entirely either. If you are eating the same number of calories and thus constantly releasing insulin you are blocking some, but not all, lipolysis. Lipolysis is not a binary, nor is insulin release. You can have both of them happening at the same time, even though insulin is blocking some of the lipolysis. Yes, it's not binary, but the easy way to increase lipolysis is to decrease insulin.
- wdewind 8y ago
  > Yes, calorie-restriction works in basically every living thing to prolong life. No, people will not do it. Right, this is the point: it's about compliance, which is real and important, but very different from metabolic change. > Please don't tell me there is conclusive evidence on anything related to nutrition. The second statement is not true, differences have been shown. No, there is no study showing the same number of calories consumed over different feeding schedules have any different outcomes. I am 100% confident about this. To be clear: there are studies showing people on IF eat fewer calories, and that eating few calories has net benefits. That's great, but that's compliance not metabolism. > Yes, it's not binary, but the easy way to increase lipolysis is to decrease insulin. Again, time windows. Please consider time windows. In a 24 hour period this stuff is all neutralized. Or maybe it's not, but we don't have any science showing it's not, and quite a bit showing it is.

JanSt 8y ago

> I have repeatedly said in this thread this doesn't apply to diabetics, who do have an insulin pathology. Diabetics do need to worry about insulin, non-diabetics do not. Point taken :-) > There is no science that disambiguates between large spikes followed by zero food in take (IF), and small spikes continually at the same calorie levels. Please feel free to send any study you think does. and > No, this is only true if you are eating all the time and also eating too many calories. . Again, please send a link to a study you think says otherwise. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4079942/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4079942/ > Why are you not a fan of the only kind of study that could possibly prove your point? Because you're on a circadian clock with lots of hormonal regulations that have huge influence on you. Most people won't feel as hungry on a fat-heavy diet as on a low-calorie (mostly low-fat) diet. Long-term adherence to low-calorie diets is just not working out for most people. Yes, calorie-restriction works in basically every living thing to prolong life. No, people will not do it. > And why hasn't this study ever been successfully completed? Why have studies that attempted to do this been unable to show any difference in outcomes? There is evidence. Please don't tell me there is conclusive evidence on anything related to nutrition. The second statement is not true, differences have been shown. > I don't really know what you're implying here, but I suspect you are still getting hamstrung by the prandial window. Yes, insulin can block your ability to access fat in the short term, no it will not in the long term, and it does not do so entirely either. If you are eating the same number of calories and thus constantly releasing insulin you are blocking some, but not all, lipolysis. Lipolysis is not a binary, nor is insulin release. You can have both of them happening at the same time, even though insulin is blocking some of the lipolysis. Yes, it's not binary, but the easy way to increase lipolysis is to decrease insulin.

wdewind 8y ago
> Yes, calorie-restriction works in basically every living thing to prolong life. No, people will not do it. Right, this is the point: it's about compliance, which is real and important, but very different from metabolic change. > Please don't tell me there is conclusive evidence on anything related to nutrition. The second statement is not true, differences have been shown. No, there is no study showing the same number of calories consumed over different feeding schedules have any different outcomes. I am 100% confident about this. To be clear: there are studies showing people on IF eat fewer calories, and that eating few calories has net benefits. That's great, but that's compliance not metabolism. > Yes, it's not binary, but the easy way to increase lipolysis is to decrease insulin. Again, time windows. Please consider time windows. In a 24 hour period this stuff is all neutralized. Or maybe it's not, but we don't have any science showing it's not, and quite a bit showing it is.