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"Engineer" and "capitalist" aren't mutually exclusive categories. You can wave money around all day but ultimately somebody with technical skills has to write

by ken 8y ago

"Engineer" and "capitalist" aren't mutually exclusive categories. You can wave money around all day but ultimately somebody with technical skills has to write these applications and maintain these servers. I don't know what RMS or Knuth are up to these days but I'm positive they're not working at Slack.

_bxg1 8y ago
The difference is in where someone's primary goal lies. I'd bet that the majority of engineers in The Valley wish the tech industry was less monopolized, more open, and had better privacy standards. Just look at the sentiment of your average HN comment section. But those engineers also want to have jobs doing what they like and to make a living, and while they could arguably do more to put their ideals into action, they aren't the driving force behind unbounded growth and corporate conquest; they just get paid by it. Engineers can certainly become capitalists when power goes to their head - just look at Mark Zuckerberg - but I don't think most of them are in it primarily for the amassing of wealth and power.
- ge0rg 8y ago
  Yes, large amounts of money can help rationalize working against your ideals, especially when there are always more potential engineer candidates to do the work that your conscience tells you not to do.
- ken 8y ago
  > But those engineers also want to have jobs doing what they like and to make a living In the US, the average software engineer's salary is more than double the average person's salary. Nobody who chooses to be a software engineer at any of these companies has any trouble making a living. They could literally work only half the year and still do just fine. The fact that they're doing this all year tells me that either they are indeed capitalists and wish to maximize their income, or building these proprietary systems is in fact what they like to spend all their time doing. > they aren't the driving force behind unbounded growth and corporate conquest; they just get paid by it There's plenty of people in this world who have the skills to get paid far more than they do, yet spend their time and energy doing something they find more worthwhile. "We just get paid" is a dangerous slope to stand on. How do you reconcile them as idealists who want less monopolization and more openness and better privacy, yet at the same time aren't doing it for amassing wealth? What other reason could there be for doing a job one doesn't want to do? > Just look at the sentiment of your average HN comment section. People are notoriously bad at accurately explaining their own behavior.
  - _bxg1 8y ago
    > How do you reconcile them as idealists who want less monopolization and more openness and better privacy, yet at the same time aren't doing it for amassing wealth? I never said they were all idealists. I'm saying being complacent to negative change is different from actively driving it. > What other reason could there be for doing a job one doesn't want to do? I never said they didn't want to do the job, just that if it were up to them they might do it differently. They're still building and improving systems, just not in all of the ways they may want to. I'm not painting people as angels and demons. I'm just tracing this phenomenon down to its baseline driver.

by ken 8y ago

_bxg1 8y ago

The difference is in where someone's primary goal lies. I'd bet that the majority of engineers in The Valley wish the tech industry was less monopolized, more open, and had better privacy standards. Just look at the sentiment of your average HN comment section. But those engineers also want to have jobs doing what they like and to make a living, and while they could arguably do more to put their ideals into action, they aren't the driving force behind unbounded growth and corporate conquest; they just get paid by it. Engineers can certainly become capitalists when power goes to their head - just look at Mark Zuckerberg - but I don't think most of them are in it primarily for the amassing of wealth and power.

ge0rg 8y ago
Yes, large amounts of money can help rationalize working against your ideals, especially when there are always more potential engineer candidates to do the work that your conscience tells you not to do.
ken 8y ago
> But those engineers also want to have jobs doing what they like and to make a living In the US, the average software engineer's salary is more than double the average person's salary. Nobody who chooses to be a software engineer at any of these companies has any trouble making a living. They could literally work only half the year and still do just fine. The fact that they're doing this all year tells me that either they are indeed capitalists and wish to maximize their income, or building these proprietary systems is in fact what they like to spend all their time doing. > they aren't the driving force behind unbounded growth and corporate conquest; they just get paid by it There's plenty of people in this world who have the skills to get paid far more than they do, yet spend their time and energy doing something they find more worthwhile. "We just get paid" is a dangerous slope to stand on. How do you reconcile them as idealists who want less monopolization and more openness and better privacy, yet at the same time aren't doing it for amassing wealth? What other reason could there be for doing a job one doesn't want to do? > Just look at the sentiment of your average HN comment section. People are notoriously bad at accurately explaining their own behavior.
- _bxg1 8y ago
  > How do you reconcile them as idealists who want less monopolization and more openness and better privacy, yet at the same time aren't doing it for amassing wealth? I never said they were all idealists. I'm saying being complacent to negative change is different from actively driving it. > What other reason could there be for doing a job one doesn't want to do? I never said they didn't want to do the job, just that if it were up to them they might do it differently. They're still building and improving systems, just not in all of the ways they may want to. I'm not painting people as angels and demons. I'm just tracing this phenomenon down to its baseline driver.