5 ms·

Genuine question: most countries in the world are not part of EU. The US, Japan, China etc are all doing fine and have good trade agreements in place with EU. N

Genuine question: most countries in the world are not part of EU. The US, Japan, China etc are all doing fine and have good trade agreements in place with EU. No company is leaving from these countries because they don't happen to be in EU. What am I missing?

thejj100100 8y ago
It would involve creating a border between NI and ROI as the UK would otherwise have to be part of the custom's union which most Brexiteers don't want. A few other issues as well.. but that's the main one from what I can see.
jontro 8y ago
Well if you read the page they go through a few possible scenarios. If UK does a so called hard exit very few companies are prepared and there will be a rough transition period. Quoting from the page "As it stands, and if nothing changes, the default position will be for the UK to leave the EU without a withdrawal agreement on 29 March 2019 at 11pm UK time. This would mean there would be no transition period, and EU laws would cease to apply to the UK immediately at that time." This will obviously have some problematic impact short term
kvz 8y ago
I dont think consensus is being reached on trade agreements so we’d fall back to world trade rules. Cargo will have to be inspected at borders which will cause traffic jams at the borders. It’s also just: change. People have been accustomed to freely interact with the UK in the EU. Here’s for example how our company would suffer: https://transloadit.com/blog/2019/03/changing-our-legal-entity/ https://transloadit.com/blog/2019/03/changing-our-legal-enti... (we’re leaving before a hard brexit could happen)
fjns 8y ago
You can’t compare these to the UK. The US, Japan and China are all way bigger than the UK and in a different region than the UK. UK to France is 30 mins by train.
pojntfx 8y ago
A market of 450 million people vs 60 million people. I guess the rest goes without saying; no point in staying in a failing monarchy when you have the free world right next door.
rndmio 8y ago
Which of those countries had spent the last 40 years tightly integrating itself and the companies that operate within it into a regulatory framework and then thrown it all out without arranging anything for the future?
benj111 8y ago
The UK has been in the EU or forebears for half a century. All trade deals are EU trade deals, all companies have developed in a situation where freedom of movement of goods and people is guaranteed. That all changes, and no ones particularly sure what will happen. Imagine Texas leaving the US, all the assumptions it invalidates, on all different levels.
msclrhd 8y ago
The UK had trade deals with various countries (including those within the EU) as part of being a member of the EU. It has also built up a lot of infrastructure on the facilitated access to the EU this gave. This covers things like: 1. just in time transport of parts for car manufacture (and other things like florests getting flowers from the EU overnight) that are tariff free; 2. just in time transport of food and medicine (including radioactive materials for x-rays); 3. access to the EU air space for flights going to/from the UK; 4. seamless trade between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland (including roads, houses, and farms that span the border). In addition to this, a large amount of regulation comes from the EU, along with 40-60 years worth of continued integration and interdependence. We are now ending that overnight. This needs adequate planning and prepration to ensure that things don't fall over. Things like border checks on both sides and agreements to make sure that things such as access to EU air space continue to run smoothly. It is problematic because of the scale of the task and the lack of information/transparency from the government. So you have things like banks and aerospace companies moving offices to the EU to try and retain access to the EU on which they depend. There are things like having to store information on EU citizens within the EU. This was fine when the UK was a part of the EU, but with Brexit that changes, so EU citizen data needs to be stored on servers in an EU country like the Republic of Ireland.
- NicoJuicy 8y ago
  Some other thing, a lot of .EU domain names are coming available. Since the UK is not allowed to own them anymore.
19870213 8y ago
CGP Grey had a good video about this recently: [0]. Basically, the UK is required by treaty with RoI to not impose a border between the RoI (not part of the UK) and Northern Ireland (part of the UK). And the UK wants to erect a border between the UK and the EU. So, do they break the treaty with RoI potentially causing The Troubles [1] to come back? Or does Northern Ireland effectively leave the UK? Or does the UK allow the EU to require that Northern Ireland and the UK by extension to conform to the trade rules the EU made and will make? They can only pick one, and they don't want to pick any of them. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1Yv24cM2os https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1Yv24cM2os [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles
- gdhbcc 8y ago
  Or they pick the third option. They keep the northern Irish open, and simply deport all non Irish without proper documentation. If course the EU won't allow a backdoor into the common market, so they will be the ones pressuring Ireland for a hard border. Whatever hard border would be imposed solely by the Irish republic, which means the British government abides by the good Friday agreement.
- SamReidHughes 8y ago
  The UK doesn't need a wall -- it could have an open border if it wants to (right?). It's Ireland that would have to enforce a border. Unless there is some other binding agreement at play.
  - jpat1 8y ago
    It absolutely could... but a major promise of the Brexit campaign was to "secure their borders" so that's a no-go. Plus it'd result in a hell of a lot of smuggling into the UK, and they'd be sanctioned under WTO rules since they'd be "favouring" Irish products and discriminating against others. For example US apples that came into a British port would have to pay tariffs while Irish apples driven across the border wouldn't, which is a big no-no under WTO rules where the first and foremost rule is that you must treat countries the same using WTO rules. So they'd be forced to either drop checks everywhere, or to erect them at the Irish border, or to do this legally they'd need a separate Trade Deal with Ireland, that is with the EU... which puts them right back at square one.
Chyzwar 8y ago
EU is a group of small countries that otherwise would have very little bargain power. By creating union small countries like the Netherlands or Latvia have a large behemoth representing their best interests and regulating law between members. The oblivious drawback is that you need to surrender some decision power to a group of random people that might have different interests. It took 7 years to reach CITA deal(EU - Canada). It might take a decade before the UK catch up with trade deals. Even then it would not be as good as EU deals. Companies are already cutting investments and withdrawing from the UK as we speak. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_free_trade_agreements https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_free_trade_agre...
deleted 8y ago
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thejj100100 8y ago

It would involve creating a border between NI and ROI as the UK would otherwise have to be part of the custom's union which most Brexiteers don't want. A few other issues as well.. but that's the main one from what I can see.

jontro 8y ago

Well if you read the page they go through a few possible scenarios. If UK does a so called hard exit very few companies are prepared and there will be a rough transition period. Quoting from the page "As it stands, and if nothing changes, the default position will be for the UK to leave the EU without a withdrawal agreement on 29 March 2019 at 11pm UK time. This would mean there would be no transition period, and EU laws would cease to apply to the UK immediately at that time." This will obviously have some problematic impact short term

kvz 8y ago

I dont think consensus is being reached on trade agreements so we’d fall back to world trade rules. Cargo will have to be inspected at borders which will cause traffic jams at the borders. It’s also just: change. People have been accustomed to freely interact with the UK in the EU. Here’s for example how our company would suffer: https://transloadit.com/blog/2019/03/changing-our-legal-entity/ https://transloadit.com/blog/2019/03/changing-our-legal-enti... (we’re leaving before a hard brexit could happen)

fjns 8y ago

You can’t compare these to the UK. The US, Japan and China are all way bigger than the UK and in a different region than the UK. UK to France is 30 mins by train.

pojntfx 8y ago

A market of 450 million people vs 60 million people. I guess the rest goes without saying; no point in staying in a failing monarchy when you have the free world right next door.

rndmio 8y ago

Which of those countries had spent the last 40 years tightly integrating itself and the companies that operate within it into a regulatory framework and then thrown it all out without arranging anything for the future?

benj111 8y ago

The UK has been in the EU or forebears for half a century. All trade deals are EU trade deals, all companies have developed in a situation where freedom of movement of goods and people is guaranteed. That all changes, and no ones particularly sure what will happen. Imagine Texas leaving the US, all the assumptions it invalidates, on all different levels.

msclrhd 8y ago

The UK had trade deals with various countries (including those within the EU) as part of being a member of the EU. It has also built up a lot of infrastructure on the facilitated access to the EU this gave. This covers things like: 1. just in time transport of parts for car manufacture (and other things like florests getting flowers from the EU overnight) that are tariff free; 2. just in time transport of food and medicine (including radioactive materials for x-rays); 3. access to the EU air space for flights going to/from the UK; 4. seamless trade between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland (including roads, houses, and farms that span the border). In addition to this, a large amount of regulation comes from the EU, along with 40-60 years worth of continued integration and interdependence. We are now ending that overnight. This needs adequate planning and prepration to ensure that things don't fall over. Things like border checks on both sides and agreements to make sure that things such as access to EU air space continue to run smoothly. It is problematic because of the scale of the task and the lack of information/transparency from the government. So you have things like banks and aerospace companies moving offices to the EU to try and retain access to the EU on which they depend. There are things like having to store information on EU citizens within the EU. This was fine when the UK was a part of the EU, but with Brexit that changes, so EU citizen data needs to be stored on servers in an EU country like the Republic of Ireland.

NicoJuicy 8y ago
Some other thing, a lot of .EU domain names are coming available. Since the UK is not allowed to own them anymore.

19870213 8y ago

CGP Grey had a good video about this recently: [0]. Basically, the UK is required by treaty with RoI to not impose a border between the RoI (not part of the UK) and Northern Ireland (part of the UK). And the UK wants to erect a border between the UK and the EU. So, do they break the treaty with RoI potentially causing The Troubles [1] to come back? Or does Northern Ireland effectively leave the UK? Or does the UK allow the EU to require that Northern Ireland and the UK by extension to conform to the trade rules the EU made and will make? They can only pick one, and they don't want to pick any of them. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1Yv24cM2os https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1Yv24cM2os [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles

gdhbcc 8y ago
Or they pick the third option. They keep the northern Irish open, and simply deport all non Irish without proper documentation. If course the EU won't allow a backdoor into the common market, so they will be the ones pressuring Ireland for a hard border. Whatever hard border would be imposed solely by the Irish republic, which means the British government abides by the good Friday agreement.
SamReidHughes 8y ago
The UK doesn't need a wall -- it could have an open border if it wants to (right?). It's Ireland that would have to enforce a border. Unless there is some other binding agreement at play.
- jpat1 8y ago
  It absolutely could... but a major promise of the Brexit campaign was to "secure their borders" so that's a no-go. Plus it'd result in a hell of a lot of smuggling into the UK, and they'd be sanctioned under WTO rules since they'd be "favouring" Irish products and discriminating against others. For example US apples that came into a British port would have to pay tariffs while Irish apples driven across the border wouldn't, which is a big no-no under WTO rules where the first and foremost rule is that you must treat countries the same using WTO rules. So they'd be forced to either drop checks everywhere, or to erect them at the Irish border, or to do this legally they'd need a separate Trade Deal with Ireland, that is with the EU... which puts them right back at square one.

Chyzwar 8y ago

EU is a group of small countries that otherwise would have very little bargain power. By creating union small countries like the Netherlands or Latvia have a large behemoth representing their best interests and regulating law between members. The oblivious drawback is that you need to surrender some decision power to a group of random people that might have different interests. It took 7 years to reach CITA deal(EU - Canada). It might take a decade before the UK catch up with trade deals. Even then it would not be as good as EU deals. Companies are already cutting investments and withdrawing from the UK as we speak. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_free_trade_agreements https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_free_trade_agre...

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]