4 ms·

I think this just goes to show that maybe the entire Brexit option was not a good one. I mean, why would Theresa May not try and get a good deal - she is trying

by osrec 8y ago

I think this just goes to show that maybe the entire Brexit option was not a good one. I mean, why would Theresa May not try and get a good deal - she is trying her level best, powering through defeat after defeat in the house! One could conclude that, perhaps, there just isn't a good deal to be had. Brexiteers seem to have this "it'll be alright on the night" attitude - as if they want to leave without weighing up the pros and cons of both sides - their staunchness confuses me and reminds me of this Charles Bukowski quote: "The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence." I can see this going to another referendum soon. May even trigger a general election. Fun times! Edit: there is an overwhelming belief amongst Brexiteers that a second referendum would be undemocratic. But how can it be? It represents the most up to date public opinion. If they're so confident that it's what the people want, why will it make a difference? If anything, it'll just help quell any uncertainty. What is truly undemocratic is manipulation of the electorate. Manipulation happened on a large scale during the referendum, and there is a fair bit of proof to back up this claim, including blatant lies, social media and other advertising campaigns.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
mrec 8y ago
> I mean, why would Theresa May not try and get a good deal May has two contradictory goals. She doesn't want to really leave the EU - I think absolutely everything about her staff picks, negotiating non-strategy and Cabinet management supports that - but she's a genuine Tory loyalist who needs to maintain enough of a fig-leaf of Leaving that her party doesn't get utterly obliterated by irate voters at the next election. That's a tough needle to thread, and she's completely failed to thread it. She's achieved her first goal by abandoning her second. > as if they want to leave without weighing up the pros and cons of both sides - their staunchness confuses me I don't think "staunchness" is quite the word. They want to leave, and they don't see the WA as leaving. (Nor does the general population; I think the last poll showed only 12% thought the WA respected the referendum result.) The talking point being pushed hard by No 10 has been "don't make the perfect the enemy of the good", implying that the ERG etc are blocking the WA because they think, unrealistically, that they can get a harder exit by holding out. That may be true for some. But I think many genuinely do believe that the WA (effectively non-voting membership with no safeguards and no way out) is worse than staying in the EU (as a voting member with the option of going Article 50 again). Many have said so. Some observers may dismiss that as rhetorical, but I don't think it is.
- osrec 8y ago
  Sorry, for my ignorance - what does WA stand for? Edit: worked it out - Withdrawal agreement
_rpd 8y ago
> "The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence." I love Bukowski, but this quote should be attributed to Yeats or Russell ... https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/03/04/self-doubt/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/03/04/self-doubt/
- osrec 8y ago
  Fair enough!

by osrec 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

mrec 8y ago

> I mean, why would Theresa May not try and get a good deal May has two contradictory goals. She doesn't want to really leave the EU - I think absolutely everything about her staff picks, negotiating non-strategy and Cabinet management supports that - but she's a genuine Tory loyalist who needs to maintain enough of a fig-leaf of Leaving that her party doesn't get utterly obliterated by irate voters at the next election. That's a tough needle to thread, and she's completely failed to thread it. She's achieved her first goal by abandoning her second. > as if they want to leave without weighing up the pros and cons of both sides - their staunchness confuses me I don't think "staunchness" is quite the word. They want to leave, and they don't see the WA as leaving. (Nor does the general population; I think the last poll showed only 12% thought the WA respected the referendum result.) The talking point being pushed hard by No 10 has been "don't make the perfect the enemy of the good", implying that the ERG etc are blocking the WA because they think, unrealistically, that they can get a harder exit by holding out. That may be true for some. But I think many genuinely do believe that the WA (effectively non-voting membership with no safeguards and no way out) is worse than staying in the EU (as a voting member with the option of going Article 50 again). Many have said so. Some observers may dismiss that as rhetorical, but I don't think it is.

osrec 8y ago
Sorry, for my ignorance - what does WA stand for? Edit: worked it out - Withdrawal agreement

_rpd 8y ago

> "The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence." I love Bukowski, but this quote should be attributed to Yeats or Russell ... https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/03/04/self-doubt/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/03/04/self-doubt/

osrec 8y ago
Fair enough!