9 ms·

This advice is certainly correct for public speaking, but for conversation, I've observed that saying "uh" and "um" is actually a good habit for most people. Th

This advice is certainly correct for public speaking, but for conversation, I've observed that saying "uh" and "um" is actually a good habit for most people. They convey clearly that you intend to speak soon. Without them, others interrupt or assume you're not listening. It's quite understandable that people would bring that good habit to a new context where it's surprisingly counterproductive.

sfRattan 8y ago
Maybe it's because I can be 'long winded' and have put effort into curbing that habit, but I find that the 'uh/uhm/ehm/mmm' interjections can be removed from conversation as well. I have to put more effort into saying just enough to communicate an interesting idea and _stop there_. It mostly means thinking before I speak rather than as I speak... The latter pattern is what results in rambling on; thinking as you speak rather than before is sort of like speaking as you would write, but without the editing you would do next. Part of that idea for conversing without 'uh/uhm' came from employee-to-employee advice I read somewhere about preparing memos for meetings with Jeff Bezos at Amazon. It was something along the lines of: have all your facts and answers ready but don't put everything in the memo; economize the information you put to paper down to what's essential, so he doesn't waste time reading more than he needs to and has questions to ask, but make sure you have the answers ready. That same advice can be adapted to conversation. Figure out how to communicate one discrete idea, but don't try to answer every concern/question the listener might have before they ask about it, even if you have those answers ready or are thinking about them as you talk. Let the other person speak and engage with the idea, then answer the questions they do ask. If you come to an 'uh/uhm' point in your own words, the other person probably has a question/concern/thought already (and it might not be the one you're about to 'uhm' into).
- hathawsh 8y ago
  I agree, and that's why I qualified with "most" people. It takes exceptional communication skills to reliably command other people's attention without much effort in casual conversation, unless you use some kind of trick. Uh/um is a simple tool to help less experienced communicators express their thoughts. I think of it like a temporary scaffolding on the way to becoming a great communicator.
  - baxtr 8y ago
    How do experienced people do it then?
    - rabidrat 8y ago
      Charisma, tension, timing. The professionals are actors, comedians, and politicians.
      - B0btheBuilder 8y ago
        Actors, comedians, and politicians all have memorized scripts, lines, routines, and soundbites. I'm very curious as to what hathawsh's eventual answer to baxtr's question will be, because I consider their comment at the top of this thread to be utterly counterproductive and unhelpful. Oftentimes, HN threads have a top comment that is contradictory to the post for the sake of being contradictory. In this case, the comment is both contradictory and harmful. Literally no one learning or teaching communication says that "uh" and "um" are good habits. In fact, I would go even further than the article asserts and claim that I succeed socially the more silent I am. People are self-absorbed; they like people who listen to them.
        CharlesW 8y ago
        > Actors, comedians, and politicians all have memorized scripts, lines, routines, and soundbites. They recite some of the time, but most their overall speech is improvised. Generally, people in these kinds of roles are pretty good at that too. > In this case, the comment is both contradictory and harmful. Literally no one learning or teaching communication says that "uh" and "um" are good habits. It depends on how meta you want to get. As a beginner learning how to give speeches, you work to expunge these kinds of "filler" words. However, at "expert level" you might use these words to seem more "authentic", and/or to appear as if you're forming thoughts for the first time. It depends on the audience and what you're trying to communicate, which goes beyond what you say to how you say it.
        hathawsh 8y ago
- ThomPete 8y ago
  My problem is that I often think by proxy of conversation. My ramblings are a kind of experimentation which then leads to some good ideas or insights ones in a while.
- retsibsi 8y ago
  > It mostly means thinking before I speak rather than as I speak Beyond the first volley of a conversation, I don't think I could do this while really listening to the other person.
larrik 8y ago
I removed them from my speech, and started getting complaints that people think my phone call dropped... Guess I don't talk fast enough to eliminate them.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- warent 8y ago
  I feel I can relate. You: "So I was thinking..." Person on the other end: "Hello!?" For some reason, this has always irrationally irritated more than it should.
musicale 8y ago
Definitely - conversation needs both keepalives and backchannel/acks.
- cuddlecake 8y ago
  Too bad many conversations are akin to UDP and not to TCP
- Cthulhu_ 8y ago
  How about a display on your forehead that displays "<name> is typing..." or a similar message when it detects silence but relevant brain activity?
draugadrotten 8y ago
> I've observed that saying "uh" and "um" is actually a good habit ... Without them, others interrupt or assume you're not listening. I have a little theory about interruptions. Humans are a social animal and people tend to listen very carefully to apes higher up on the social ladder. Grunts don't interrupt generals. Peasants don't interrupt the president. Hence, if you are being interrupted when silent, it is information to you that the person who interrupts you think you are lower on the social ladder than they are. More important, however, is that you, by ignoring interruptions, are saying to the listener that you are equal on the social ladder and expect to be listened to. There are many ways to handle interruptions. If you are presenting to a group, one way to do it is to simply back up a few seconds and keep talking where you were at the interruption. Search will give you more tools. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSWVAUqqQ6Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSWVAUqqQ6Q So, be silent, demand respect from the listener, and stand your ground.
johnchristopher 8y ago
Non-verbal phatic expressions.
MR4D 8y ago
I happen to look at the “um/uh” situation totally differently. For instance, a subordinate will want to make sure he can get in all his thoughts with his boss by making sure he can fill a gap of silence while he’s thinking. A boss has no such problem - when he talks people listen. Well they better.

sfRattan 8y ago

Maybe it's because I can be 'long winded' and have put effort into curbing that habit, but I find that the 'uh/uhm/ehm/mmm' interjections can be removed from conversation as well. I have to put more effort into saying just enough to communicate an interesting idea and _stop there_. It mostly means thinking before I speak rather than as I speak... The latter pattern is what results in rambling on; thinking as you speak rather than before is sort of like speaking as you would write, but without the editing you would do next. Part of that idea for conversing without 'uh/uhm' came from employee-to-employee advice I read somewhere about preparing memos for meetings with Jeff Bezos at Amazon. It was something along the lines of: have all your facts and answers ready but don't put everything in the memo; economize the information you put to paper down to what's essential, so he doesn't waste time reading more than he needs to and has questions to ask, but make sure you have the answers ready. That same advice can be adapted to conversation. Figure out how to communicate one discrete idea, but don't try to answer every concern/question the listener might have before they ask about it, even if you have those answers ready or are thinking about them as you talk. Let the other person speak and engage with the idea, then answer the questions they do ask. If you come to an 'uh/uhm' point in your own words, the other person probably has a question/concern/thought already (and it might not be the one you're about to 'uhm' into).

hathawsh 8y ago
I agree, and that's why I qualified with "most" people. It takes exceptional communication skills to reliably command other people's attention without much effort in casual conversation, unless you use some kind of trick. Uh/um is a simple tool to help less experienced communicators express their thoughts. I think of it like a temporary scaffolding on the way to becoming a great communicator.
- baxtr 8y ago
  How do experienced people do it then?
  - rabidrat 8y ago
    Charisma, tension, timing. The professionals are actors, comedians, and politicians.
    - B0btheBuilder 8y ago
      Actors, comedians, and politicians all have memorized scripts, lines, routines, and soundbites. I'm very curious as to what hathawsh's eventual answer to baxtr's question will be, because I consider their comment at the top of this thread to be utterly counterproductive and unhelpful. Oftentimes, HN threads have a top comment that is contradictory to the post for the sake of being contradictory. In this case, the comment is both contradictory and harmful. Literally no one learning or teaching communication says that "uh" and "um" are good habits. In fact, I would go even further than the article asserts and claim that I succeed socially the more silent I am. People are self-absorbed; they like people who listen to them.
      - CharlesW 8y ago
        > Actors, comedians, and politicians all have memorized scripts, lines, routines, and soundbites. They recite some of the time, but most their overall speech is improvised. Generally, people in these kinds of roles are pretty good at that too. > In this case, the comment is both contradictory and harmful. Literally no one learning or teaching communication says that "uh" and "um" are good habits. It depends on how meta you want to get. As a beginner learning how to give speeches, you work to expunge these kinds of "filler" words. However, at "expert level" you might use these words to seem more "authentic", and/or to appear as if you're forming thoughts for the first time. It depends on the audience and what you're trying to communicate, which goes beyond what you say to how you say it.
      - hathawsh 8y ago
ThomPete 8y ago
My problem is that I often think by proxy of conversation. My ramblings are a kind of experimentation which then leads to some good ideas or insights ones in a while.
retsibsi 8y ago
> It mostly means thinking before I speak rather than as I speak Beyond the first volley of a conversation, I don't think I could do this while really listening to the other person.

larrik 8y ago

I removed them from my speech, and started getting complaints that people think my phone call dropped... Guess I don't talk fast enough to eliminate them.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
warent 8y ago
I feel I can relate. You: "So I was thinking..." Person on the other end: "Hello!?" For some reason, this has always irrationally irritated more than it should.

musicale 8y ago

Definitely - conversation needs both keepalives and backchannel/acks.

cuddlecake 8y ago
Too bad many conversations are akin to UDP and not to TCP
Cthulhu_ 8y ago
How about a display on your forehead that displays "<name> is typing..." or a similar message when it detects silence but relevant brain activity?

draugadrotten 8y ago

> I've observed that saying "uh" and "um" is actually a good habit ... Without them, others interrupt or assume you're not listening. I have a little theory about interruptions. Humans are a social animal and people tend to listen very carefully to apes higher up on the social ladder. Grunts don't interrupt generals. Peasants don't interrupt the president. Hence, if you are being interrupted when silent, it is information to you that the person who interrupts you think you are lower on the social ladder than they are. More important, however, is that you, by ignoring interruptions, are saying to the listener that you are equal on the social ladder and expect to be listened to. There are many ways to handle interruptions. If you are presenting to a group, one way to do it is to simply back up a few seconds and keep talking where you were at the interruption. Search will give you more tools. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSWVAUqqQ6Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSWVAUqqQ6Q So, be silent, demand respect from the listener, and stand your ground.

johnchristopher 8y ago

Non-verbal phatic expressions.

MR4D 8y ago

I happen to look at the “um/uh” situation totally differently. For instance, a subordinate will want to make sure he can get in all his thoughts with his boss by making sure he can fill a gap of silence while he’s thinking. A boss has no such problem - when he talks people listen. Well they better.