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I would like to be charitable about this, as in general a reasonable reminder that software is reaching the end of support and security updates might be helpful

I would like to be charitable about this, as in general a reasonable reminder that software is reaching the end of support and security updates might be helpful. On the other hand, this is Microsoft promoting Windows 10, so their "courtesy reminder that you can expect to see a handful of times in 2019" sounds a lot like "GWX fiasco, round 2". The post does state that there will be an option to not receive any more notifications after the first one, at least. As for my own businesses, and those of most of my professional network for that matter, the only "transitions" we're all planning are to other platforms like Mac or Linux if Microsoft haven't turned off the well-documented antifeatures in Windows 10 Pro before the deadline hits.

ocdtrekkie 8y ago
I recognize your username from a couple days ago: But the truth of the matter is that Windows 7 is unsafe to use, and should not be used after January 14th of 2020. Microsoft very obviously has no plans to budge on how they handle updates or telemetry, and switching your workflow to Mac or Linux can take quite a while, so these reminders are an excellent nudge that you should probably start now.
- Silhouette 8y ago
  Oh, don't worry, we started quite a while ago. But thanks anyway. :-)
- walterbell 8y ago
  Why is fully patched Windows 7 unsafe to use? Extended security updates will be available for several years.
  - Silhouette 8y ago
    I was discussing this with ocdtrekkie the other day; see here if you're interested: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19341697 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19341697 Also, the extended security updates you're talking about are only currently being offered to Enterprise customers. Given that the market we were talking about in that previous HN discussion was non-enterprise users, who also don't have access to a version of Windows 10 without the antifeatures, unfortunately the extended security updates programme for 7 doesn't solve the fundamental problem here. As another point of curiosity, since HN doesn't show scores any more, my comments in that previous discussion were significantly upvoted. Apparently I am not the only one with these concerns...
    - walterbell 8y ago
      There are hundreds of millions of Windows 7 installations globally. There will be strong incentives to protect installations that cannot be upgraded to Windows 10, due to custom enterprise software or other constraints. Windows XP received many security fixes, some even appeared after the end of extended support. Global business realities can lead to policy changes. Worst case, customers can firewall Windows 7 business apps from public networks, and run Linux on another monitor.
      - ocdtrekkie 8y ago
        WannaCry demonstrated an incredible ability to use a single vulnerable PC to elevate itself and gain access to an entire network of PCs that were not, themselves, vulnerable. The way that WannaCry spread from PC to PC is largely still not mitigated against in most environments: Using the shared admin credentials from one to access others. (The solution is called LAPS, but it's use is much less widespread than it should be.) Which is to say, having a single PC on your network vulnerable to it put your entire network at risk. While a fully patched Windows 7 machine today can't be infected by WannaCry, after January, it will be vulnerable to new malware. And malware that spreads similarly to WannaCry is certainly possible. Considering that you could start an infection from a malicious file brought to the vulnerable PC from another one on your network (which was itself, immune), firewalling a Windows 7 PC from accessing public networks is inadequate: You need to unplug Windows 7 PCs from all networks altogether. Note that from personal experience, I've managed a fully Windows 10 environment using multiple pieces of software written solely for Windows XP environments. The number of devices which truly can't be upgraded is much lower than people claim, likely due to a skills gap of some sort. For the most part, the only thing truly locked to a given Windows version tends to be unsupported hardware drivers for very obscure hardware items.
  - ocdtrekkie 8y ago
    As Silhouette covered, those extended updates are paid. And most people who can pay for those also could pay for Windows 10 Enterprise, which has effectively zero downsides. Extended Windows 7 updates are intended for the niche case of supporting a machine that can't be upgraded to Windows 10 in a business environment. That being said, the recent Chrome zero-day vulnerability only affected Windows 7, and 99% of all PCs infected with WannaCry ran Windows 7 as well. The additional security mitigations of Windows 10 make it significantly more secure than a fully patched Windows 7 installation.
    - walterbell 8y ago
      EMET is available for Windows 7. Windows 10 telemetry is a non-starter. Windows 7 telemetry updates can be removed/blacklisted. Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB (closest equivalent to Windows 7) is not available to individuals. Web browsing can be moved to a Linux VM with non-persistent OS.
      - ocdtrekkie 8y ago
        Besides the fact that EMET has a tendency to cause a lot of applications to break and can't provide nearly the protection Windows 10 can out of the box, EMET's support has already come to an end in July of 2018: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/2458544/the-enhanced-mitigation-experience-toolkit https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/2458544/the-enhance... You should not use EMET, and you should not use Windows 7. Period.
        walterbell 8y ago
        If you are on Win7 for any reason, EMET is better than no EMET, after validation with specific apps. 500+ million Windows 7 users have resisted marketing, forced upgrades and more, with Win7 footprint still at 90% of Win10 footprint, https://venturebeat.com/2019/01/01/net-applications-windows-10-passes-windows-7-in-market-share/ https://venturebeat.com/2019/01/01/net-applications-windows-...
        8y ago

ocdtrekkie 8y ago

I recognize your username from a couple days ago: But the truth of the matter is that Windows 7 is unsafe to use, and should not be used after January 14th of 2020. Microsoft very obviously has no plans to budge on how they handle updates or telemetry, and switching your workflow to Mac or Linux can take quite a while, so these reminders are an excellent nudge that you should probably start now.

Silhouette 8y ago
Oh, don't worry, we started quite a while ago. But thanks anyway. :-)
walterbell 8y ago
Why is fully patched Windows 7 unsafe to use? Extended security updates will be available for several years.
- Silhouette 8y ago
  I was discussing this with ocdtrekkie the other day; see here if you're interested: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19341697 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19341697 Also, the extended security updates you're talking about are only currently being offered to Enterprise customers. Given that the market we were talking about in that previous HN discussion was non-enterprise users, who also don't have access to a version of Windows 10 without the antifeatures, unfortunately the extended security updates programme for 7 doesn't solve the fundamental problem here. As another point of curiosity, since HN doesn't show scores any more, my comments in that previous discussion were significantly upvoted. Apparently I am not the only one with these concerns...
  - walterbell 8y ago
    There are hundreds of millions of Windows 7 installations globally. There will be strong incentives to protect installations that cannot be upgraded to Windows 10, due to custom enterprise software or other constraints. Windows XP received many security fixes, some even appeared after the end of extended support. Global business realities can lead to policy changes. Worst case, customers can firewall Windows 7 business apps from public networks, and run Linux on another monitor.
    - ocdtrekkie 8y ago
      WannaCry demonstrated an incredible ability to use a single vulnerable PC to elevate itself and gain access to an entire network of PCs that were not, themselves, vulnerable. The way that WannaCry spread from PC to PC is largely still not mitigated against in most environments: Using the shared admin credentials from one to access others. (The solution is called LAPS, but it's use is much less widespread than it should be.) Which is to say, having a single PC on your network vulnerable to it put your entire network at risk. While a fully patched Windows 7 machine today can't be infected by WannaCry, after January, it will be vulnerable to new malware. And malware that spreads similarly to WannaCry is certainly possible. Considering that you could start an infection from a malicious file brought to the vulnerable PC from another one on your network (which was itself, immune), firewalling a Windows 7 PC from accessing public networks is inadequate: You need to unplug Windows 7 PCs from all networks altogether. Note that from personal experience, I've managed a fully Windows 10 environment using multiple pieces of software written solely for Windows XP environments. The number of devices which truly can't be upgraded is much lower than people claim, likely due to a skills gap of some sort. For the most part, the only thing truly locked to a given Windows version tends to be unsupported hardware drivers for very obscure hardware items.
- ocdtrekkie 8y ago
  As Silhouette covered, those extended updates are paid. And most people who can pay for those also could pay for Windows 10 Enterprise, which has effectively zero downsides. Extended Windows 7 updates are intended for the niche case of supporting a machine that can't be upgraded to Windows 10 in a business environment. That being said, the recent Chrome zero-day vulnerability only affected Windows 7, and 99% of all PCs infected with WannaCry ran Windows 7 as well. The additional security mitigations of Windows 10 make it significantly more secure than a fully patched Windows 7 installation.
  - walterbell 8y ago
    EMET is available for Windows 7. Windows 10 telemetry is a non-starter. Windows 7 telemetry updates can be removed/blacklisted. Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB (closest equivalent to Windows 7) is not available to individuals. Web browsing can be moved to a Linux VM with non-persistent OS.
    - ocdtrekkie 8y ago
      Besides the fact that EMET has a tendency to cause a lot of applications to break and can't provide nearly the protection Windows 10 can out of the box, EMET's support has already come to an end in July of 2018: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/2458544/the-enhanced-mitigation-experience-toolkit https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/2458544/the-enhance... You should not use EMET, and you should not use Windows 7. Period.
      - walterbell 8y ago
        If you are on Win7 for any reason, EMET is better than no EMET, after validation with specific apps. 500+ million Windows 7 users have resisted marketing, forced upgrades and more, with Win7 footprint still at 90% of Win10 footprint, https://venturebeat.com/2019/01/01/net-applications-windows-10-passes-windows-7-in-market-share/ https://venturebeat.com/2019/01/01/net-applications-windows-...
        8y ago