4 ms·

I know it'll probably never happen, but I hope this somehow leads to Apple supporting .webm in Safari.

ihuman 8y ago
VP8 can only be contained in MKVs and WebMs files, so I do see this happening. Apple is also part of the consortium working on AV1, the successor to VP8 and VP9; it also uses the MKV and WEBM containers.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- morganw 8y ago
  "uses the MKV and WEBM containers" Maybe, but not exclusively VP9: https://www.webmproject.org/vp9/mp4/ https://www.webmproject.org/vp9/mp4/ (uses 'vp09' & 'vpcC' in the stsd) AV1: https://aomedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/AV1-ISO-Base-Media-File-Format-Binding-Specification.pdf https://aomedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/AV1-ISO-Base-... (uses 'av01' & 'av1C' in the stsd) YouTube's AV1 playlist https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nXYbGmF3_Q&list=PLyqf6gJt7KuHBmeVzZteZUlNUQAVLwrZS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nXYbGmF3_Q&list=PLyqf6gJt7K... uses mp4 as the container for the av1 (av01.0.05M.08), webm for the VP9 (vp9) ./youtube-dl --list-formats https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nXYbGmF3_Q [youtube] 2nXYbGmF3_Q: Downloading webpage [youtube] 2nXYbGmF3_Q: Downloading video info webpage [info] Available formats for 2nXYbGmF3_Q: format code extension resolution note 249 webm audio only DASH audio 55k , opus @ 50k, 1.43MiB 250 webm audio only DASH audio 70k , opus @ 70k, 1.81MiB 171 webm audio only DASH audio 118k , vorbis@128k, 2.99MiB 140 m4a audio only DASH audio 128k , m4a_dash container, mp4a.40.2@128k, 3.65MiB 251 webm audio only DASH audio 133k , opus @160k, 3.38MiB 278 webm 256x144 144p 101k , webm container, vp9, 30fps, video only, 2.57MiB 160 mp4 256x144 144p 109k , avc1.4d400c, 30fps, video only, 1.02MiB 242 webm 426x240 240p 205k , vp9, 30fps, video only, 2.81MiB 133 mp4 426x240 240p 241k , avc1.4d4015, 30fps, video only, 2.27MiB 243 webm 640x360 360p 377k , vp9, 30fps, video only, 5.08MiB 395 mp4 426x240 240p 426k , av01.0.05M.08, 30fps, video only, 3.33MiB 134 mp4 640x360 360p 514k , avc1.4d401e, 30fps, video only, 4.66MiB 244 webm 854x480 480p 696k , vp9, 30fps, video only, 8.29MiB 396 mp4 640x360 360p 751k , av01.0.05M.08, 30fps, video only, 6.04MiB 135 mp4 854x480 480p 989k , avc1.4d401f, 30fps, video only, 8.54MiB 397 mp4 854x480 480p 1175k , av01.0.05M.08, 30fps, video only, 9.86MiB 247 webm 1280x720 720p 1282k , vp9, 30fps, video only, 12.27MiB 136 mp4 1280x720 720p 1675k , avc1.4d401f, 30fps, video only, 14.43MiB 398 mp4 1280x720 720p 2075k , av01.0.05M.08, 30fps, video only, 18.99MiB 248 webm 1920x1080 1080p 2349k , vp9, 30fps, video only, 20.93MiB 137 mp4 1920x1080 1080p 2768k , avc1.640028, 30fps, video only, 23.33MiB 399 mp4 1920x1080 1080p 3759k , av01.0.05M.08, 30fps, video only, 39.32MiB 18 mp4 640x360 medium , avc1.42001E, mp4a.40.2@ 96k, 11.11MiB 43 webm 640x360 medium , vp8.0, vorbis@128k, 16.66MiB 22 mp4 1280x720 hd720 , avc1.64001F, mp4a.40.2@192k (best)
  - ihuman 8y ago
    AVC1 is just H264[0]. FFmpeg says stream 0 is "Video: h264" The page you linked about AV1 in mp4 says it uses MPEG-4 Part 31, which is under development and not final [1]. Until now I was not aware they were extending the MPEG-4 container standard to include more formats. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC#Naming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC#Naming [1] https://www.iso.org/standard/66062.html https://www.iso.org/standard/66062.html
    - TD-Linux 8y ago
      The GP shows both avc1 and av01, the latter of which is AV1.
      - ihuman 8y ago
        Yes. The post also said avc1 and av01 are both av1, when just av01 is av1.
        brigade 8y ago
        I think you misread av1C (av1's equivalent of avcC) as avc1
- xenadu02 8y ago
  VP8 is power hungry and GPUs don't have hardware support for decoding it. Do you really want way worse battery life just so you can have VP8? That seems to be prioritizing the wrong things.
- twotwotwo 8y ago
  The AOM membership and the VP8 support may even be related. If Apple's assuming risk from submarine patents, etc. inherent in shipping an AV1 implementation, VP8 is something like a subset of it, so they can get that "for free". The post talks about how iPhone 7's have worse battery life with VP8, which I'm sure is true, but it's still kinda funny because...it's Apple quasi-complaining here, and Apple who can solve the lack of acceleration, at least for future products.
simongr3dal 8y ago
I don't think they will support .webm until at least one or two generations of iPhone have hardware decoding for AV1 and/or VPx.
- ihuman 8y ago
  Apple has released software decoders before, but you might be right about waiting for hardware decoders first. They released an HEVC software decoder for devices that could get iOS 11, but had a chip older than the A9, (like the iPhone 5S and 6).

VP8 can only be contained in MKVs and WebMs files, so I do see this happening. Apple is also part of the consortium working on AV1, the successor to VP8 and VP9; it also uses the MKV and WEBM containers.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
morganw 8y ago
"uses the MKV and WEBM containers" Maybe, but not exclusively VP9: https://www.webmproject.org/vp9/mp4/ https://www.webmproject.org/vp9/mp4/ (uses 'vp09' & 'vpcC' in the stsd) AV1: https://aomedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/AV1-ISO-Base-Media-File-Format-Binding-Specification.pdf https://aomedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/AV1-ISO-Base-... (uses 'av01' & 'av1C' in the stsd) YouTube's AV1 playlist https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nXYbGmF3_Q&list=PLyqf6gJt7KuHBmeVzZteZUlNUQAVLwrZS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nXYbGmF3_Q&list=PLyqf6gJt7K... uses mp4 as the container for the av1 (av01.0.05M.08), webm for the VP9 (vp9) ./youtube-dl --list-formats https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nXYbGmF3_Q [youtube] 2nXYbGmF3_Q: Downloading webpage [youtube] 2nXYbGmF3_Q: Downloading video info webpage [info] Available formats for 2nXYbGmF3_Q: format code extension resolution note 249 webm audio only DASH audio 55k , opus @ 50k, 1.43MiB 250 webm audio only DASH audio 70k , opus @ 70k, 1.81MiB 171 webm audio only DASH audio 118k , vorbis@128k, 2.99MiB 140 m4a audio only DASH audio 128k , m4a_dash container, mp4a.40.2@128k, 3.65MiB 251 webm audio only DASH audio 133k , opus @160k, 3.38MiB 278 webm 256x144 144p 101k , webm container, vp9, 30fps, video only, 2.57MiB 160 mp4 256x144 144p 109k , avc1.4d400c, 30fps, video only, 1.02MiB 242 webm 426x240 240p 205k , vp9, 30fps, video only, 2.81MiB 133 mp4 426x240 240p 241k , avc1.4d4015, 30fps, video only, 2.27MiB 243 webm 640x360 360p 377k , vp9, 30fps, video only, 5.08MiB 395 mp4 426x240 240p 426k , av01.0.05M.08, 30fps, video only, 3.33MiB 134 mp4 640x360 360p 514k , avc1.4d401e, 30fps, video only, 4.66MiB 244 webm 854x480 480p 696k , vp9, 30fps, video only, 8.29MiB 396 mp4 640x360 360p 751k , av01.0.05M.08, 30fps, video only, 6.04MiB 135 mp4 854x480 480p 989k , avc1.4d401f, 30fps, video only, 8.54MiB 397 mp4 854x480 480p 1175k , av01.0.05M.08, 30fps, video only, 9.86MiB 247 webm 1280x720 720p 1282k , vp9, 30fps, video only, 12.27MiB 136 mp4 1280x720 720p 1675k , avc1.4d401f, 30fps, video only, 14.43MiB 398 mp4 1280x720 720p 2075k , av01.0.05M.08, 30fps, video only, 18.99MiB 248 webm 1920x1080 1080p 2349k , vp9, 30fps, video only, 20.93MiB 137 mp4 1920x1080 1080p 2768k , avc1.640028, 30fps, video only, 23.33MiB 399 mp4 1920x1080 1080p 3759k , av01.0.05M.08, 30fps, video only, 39.32MiB 18 mp4 640x360 medium , avc1.42001E, mp4a.40.2@ 96k, 11.11MiB 43 webm 640x360 medium , vp8.0, vorbis@128k, 16.66MiB 22 mp4 1280x720 hd720 , avc1.64001F, mp4a.40.2@192k (best)
- ihuman 8y ago
  AVC1 is just H264[0]. FFmpeg says stream 0 is "Video: h264" The page you linked about AV1 in mp4 says it uses MPEG-4 Part 31, which is under development and not final [1]. Until now I was not aware they were extending the MPEG-4 container standard to include more formats. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC#Naming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC#Naming [1] https://www.iso.org/standard/66062.html https://www.iso.org/standard/66062.html
  - TD-Linux 8y ago
    The GP shows both avc1 and av01, the latter of which is AV1.
    - ihuman 8y ago
      Yes. The post also said avc1 and av01 are both av1, when just av01 is av1.
      - brigade 8y ago
        I think you misread av1C (av1's equivalent of avcC) as avc1
xenadu02 8y ago
VP8 is power hungry and GPUs don't have hardware support for decoding it. Do you really want way worse battery life just so you can have VP8? That seems to be prioritizing the wrong things.
twotwotwo 8y ago
The AOM membership and the VP8 support may even be related. If Apple's assuming risk from submarine patents, etc. inherent in shipping an AV1 implementation, VP8 is something like a subset of it, so they can get that "for free". The post talks about how iPhone 7's have worse battery life with VP8, which I'm sure is true, but it's still kinda funny because...it's Apple quasi-complaining here, and Apple who can solve the lack of acceleration, at least for future products.

simongr3dal 8y ago

I don't think they will support .webm until at least one or two generations of iPhone have hardware decoding for AV1 and/or VPx.

ihuman 8y ago
Apple has released software decoders before, but you might be right about waiting for hardware decoders first. They released an HEVC software decoder for devices that could get iOS 11, but had a chip older than the A9, (like the iPhone 5S and 6).