3 ms·

U.S. to mandate design changes on Boeing 737 MAX 8 after crashes

44 points by howard941 8y ago

supercanuck 8y ago
>U.S. Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao told reporters regulators would not hesitate to act if they find a safety issue. In any other administration, Republican/Democrat, I'd believe them. This one? With Chao being McConnell's wife. This makes me feel uncomfortable.
- dragontamer 8y ago
  I agree that it feels wrong. But at least Elaine Chao has experience in her field. Unlike a lot of other Secretaries (ex: Perry has no experience in nuclear, yet is in charge of the Department of Energy / National Labs / Nuclear program. Ben Carson is a medical doctor, but was placed in charge of Housing and Urban Development. Etc. etc.) Elaine Chao actually worked under Bush as the deputy Transportation Secretary and Chair of the Federal Maritime Commission. She actually knows a thing or two about how this country moves (at least how it moves stuff in the Oceans). I think her words hold more weight than a lot of other secretaries right now. Chao's history of Maritime Transportation -> Transportation Secretary at least makes sense. Maybe its not the airline experience the country needs for this specific crisis right now, but its at least a valid set of credentials for her position. EDIT: It should be noted that Chao was voted into her position with a Senate vote of 93 to 6. For the most part, the country agrees that she was a fine pick without much controversy. She's probably the least controversial pick in all of Trump's cabinet.
  - ModernMech 8y ago
    > ex: Perry has no experience in nuclear, yet is in charge of the Department of Energy / National Labs / Nuclear program. Not only that, but in the 2012 debates, Perry proposed that he would want to eliminate the Department of Energy as president: > Gov. Rick Perry couldn't remember the third federal agency he has pledged to eliminate. "The third agency of government I would, I would do away with, the Education, the... Commerce and, let's see," Perry said, as his brain freeze continued. However, a few minutes later in the debate, Perry remembered that the third department was the Energy Department. "By the way that was the Department of Energy I was reaching for a while ago," he said with a chuckle when he was asked another question. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rick-perry-fails-to-remember-what-agency-hed-get-rid-of-in-gop-debate/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rick-perry-fails-to-remember-wh...
    - burfog 8y ago
      That is the ideal qualification if you are trying to stop unbounded self-serving expansion of bloated bureaucracies. A government agency that has less work to do does not shrink, and one that has completed its job does not just disappear. Organizations find excuses to exist. They are self-perpetuating, always seeking new justification for their continued parasitic existence.
      - ordinaryradical 8y ago
        This is ideology, not rationality. Nuclear energy is not some bureaucratic wasteland of dithering and meaningless regulation—it is literal world-ending stuff. I don’t know how committed you have to be to a libertarian view to get here but trying to paint the entire Department of Energy as feckless bureaucrats and red tape in need of abolishing, that Perry could actually mean that in good faith for the betterment of our country, is just preposterous.
      - dragontamer 8y ago
        I strongly disagree. The nation's nuclear project is absolutely necessary for defense. Fortunately, Perry has learned the importance of the Department of Energy (aka: Department of Nuclear) and is appropriately funding it and doing his best to run the place. A big problem is that Perry didn't even know what Department of Energy did before he got the job. Perry is the first non-nuclear engineer to run the Department of Energy, he was a horrible pick, but at least he understands his department now. I would have much preferred to have an actually qualified person running our nation's nuclear program, but... I'll take a cautiously-optimistic non-expert over a lot of the other secretaries who are aiming at destroying their specific departments. The FCC is a good example of active destruction from within. All those Robocalls you've been getting the past year or two are precisely because of the new FCC Head refusing to do his job to punish robocallers. The fact of the matter is that only the FCC has the authority and power to effectively police Robocalls, and ignoring those responsibilities leads to the annoying situation we have today.
        somecontext 8y ago
- partiallypro 8y ago
  ...and how does that make her unqualified? Because you don't like Mitch McConnell? Does McConnell have some connection to Boeing I'm unaware of? Because otherwise I don't see how it's a relevant fact, at least not in this case.
  - supercanuck 8y ago
    Airplanes are becoming far too complex to fly. Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT. I see it all the time in many products. Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further, when often old and simpler is far better. Split second decisions are needed, and the complexity creates danger. All of this for great cost yet very little gain. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want Albert Einstein to be my pilot. I want great flying professionals that are allowed to easily and quickly take control of a plane!
  - dragontamer 8y ago
    Nepotism is wrong, but incredibly common. Its natural for people to question whether or not Nepotism got them a role when people get into a position of power. Ex: do you really think Donald Trump Jr. deserves the powerful White-House role he has? Or was he only put in there because his daddy is the President? Whenever people see nepotism, its only natural to instinctively question the qualifications of the individual. In the case of Chao (and being the wife of McConnell), the fear of nepotism is certainly a factor... but as far as I can tell... its fine because Chao actually has experience in Maritime Transportation. I can't blame anyone for being cautious with nepotism (real or imagined). Being the son, daughter, or wife of someone important isn't a qualification at all. People have to be judged on what they themselves have done in life.
- gdubs 8y ago
  Without veering into politics, I’ll just say that as a casual observer this feels different from the norm as far as the safety-first aviation industry is concerned. Usually HN has quite a few people more intimately involved with aviation — question to them: does this feel odd to you as well, or is this a fairly typical response to a problem of this nature?
TorKlingberg 8y ago
> mandate that Boeing Co implement design changes by April that have been in the works for months I assume that just before this announcement the FAA had a phone call with Boeing confirming the will have the fix ready by April. This way the FAA gets to looks tough without harming Boeing in any way.
- supercanuck 8y ago
  Why should they care how they want to look appear? It seems we lack people willing to behave on principal. What is the downside to not grounding planes that have killed 300 people until April when the fix is ready and we can get pilots training? Where in the constitution does it say we must protect shareholders of airlines and save them 3 weeks of lost revenue from ...(checks notes)... 30 planes ...(Southwest)? If something happens between now and then on this airplane, and it may not even be related to the issue, how much trust is lost in the United States of America and its aviation industry. it just seems quite short sighted.
- sschueller 8y ago
  That's still a huge gamble. What are the odds of another one crashing before April?
techie128 8y ago
Grounding the aircraft as a precaution would have been a wise decision especially considering that lives once lost cannot be recovered. Monetary losses, however, can be.
- gscott 8y ago
  Grounding these planes would mean bringing in many dozens of out-of-service airplanes from storage.

44 points by howard941 8y ago

>U.S. Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao told reporters regulators would not hesitate to act if they find a safety issue. In any other administration, Republican/Democrat, I'd believe them. This one? With Chao being McConnell's wife. This makes me feel uncomfortable.

dragontamer 8y ago
I agree that it feels wrong. But at least Elaine Chao has experience in her field. Unlike a lot of other Secretaries (ex: Perry has no experience in nuclear, yet is in charge of the Department of Energy / National Labs / Nuclear program. Ben Carson is a medical doctor, but was placed in charge of Housing and Urban Development. Etc. etc.) Elaine Chao actually worked under Bush as the deputy Transportation Secretary and Chair of the Federal Maritime Commission. She actually knows a thing or two about how this country moves (at least how it moves stuff in the Oceans). I think her words hold more weight than a lot of other secretaries right now. Chao's history of Maritime Transportation -> Transportation Secretary at least makes sense. Maybe its not the airline experience the country needs for this specific crisis right now, but its at least a valid set of credentials for her position. EDIT: It should be noted that Chao was voted into her position with a Senate vote of 93 to 6. For the most part, the country agrees that she was a fine pick without much controversy. She's probably the least controversial pick in all of Trump's cabinet.
- ModernMech 8y ago
  > ex: Perry has no experience in nuclear, yet is in charge of the Department of Energy / National Labs / Nuclear program. Not only that, but in the 2012 debates, Perry proposed that he would want to eliminate the Department of Energy as president: > Gov. Rick Perry couldn't remember the third federal agency he has pledged to eliminate. "The third agency of government I would, I would do away with, the Education, the... Commerce and, let's see," Perry said, as his brain freeze continued. However, a few minutes later in the debate, Perry remembered that the third department was the Energy Department. "By the way that was the Department of Energy I was reaching for a while ago," he said with a chuckle when he was asked another question. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rick-perry-fails-to-remember-what-agency-hed-get-rid-of-in-gop-debate/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rick-perry-fails-to-remember-wh...
  - burfog 8y ago
    That is the ideal qualification if you are trying to stop unbounded self-serving expansion of bloated bureaucracies. A government agency that has less work to do does not shrink, and one that has completed its job does not just disappear. Organizations find excuses to exist. They are self-perpetuating, always seeking new justification for their continued parasitic existence.
    - ordinaryradical 8y ago
      This is ideology, not rationality. Nuclear energy is not some bureaucratic wasteland of dithering and meaningless regulation—it is literal world-ending stuff. I don’t know how committed you have to be to a libertarian view to get here but trying to paint the entire Department of Energy as feckless bureaucrats and red tape in need of abolishing, that Perry could actually mean that in good faith for the betterment of our country, is just preposterous.
    - dragontamer 8y ago
      I strongly disagree. The nation's nuclear project is absolutely necessary for defense. Fortunately, Perry has learned the importance of the Department of Energy (aka: Department of Nuclear) and is appropriately funding it and doing his best to run the place. A big problem is that Perry didn't even know what Department of Energy did before he got the job. Perry is the first non-nuclear engineer to run the Department of Energy, he was a horrible pick, but at least he understands his department now. I would have much preferred to have an actually qualified person running our nation's nuclear program, but... I'll take a cautiously-optimistic non-expert over a lot of the other secretaries who are aiming at destroying their specific departments. The FCC is a good example of active destruction from within. All those Robocalls you've been getting the past year or two are precisely because of the new FCC Head refusing to do his job to punish robocallers. The fact of the matter is that only the FCC has the authority and power to effectively police Robocalls, and ignoring those responsibilities leads to the annoying situation we have today.
      - somecontext 8y ago
partiallypro 8y ago
...and how does that make her unqualified? Because you don't like Mitch McConnell? Does McConnell have some connection to Boeing I'm unaware of? Because otherwise I don't see how it's a relevant fact, at least not in this case.
- supercanuck 8y ago
  Airplanes are becoming far too complex to fly. Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT. I see it all the time in many products. Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further, when often old and simpler is far better. Split second decisions are needed, and the complexity creates danger. All of this for great cost yet very little gain. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want Albert Einstein to be my pilot. I want great flying professionals that are allowed to easily and quickly take control of a plane!
- dragontamer 8y ago
  Nepotism is wrong, but incredibly common. Its natural for people to question whether or not Nepotism got them a role when people get into a position of power. Ex: do you really think Donald Trump Jr. deserves the powerful White-House role he has? Or was he only put in there because his daddy is the President? Whenever people see nepotism, its only natural to instinctively question the qualifications of the individual. In the case of Chao (and being the wife of McConnell), the fear of nepotism is certainly a factor... but as far as I can tell... its fine because Chao actually has experience in Maritime Transportation. I can't blame anyone for being cautious with nepotism (real or imagined). Being the son, daughter, or wife of someone important isn't a qualification at all. People have to be judged on what they themselves have done in life.
gdubs 8y ago
Without veering into politics, I’ll just say that as a casual observer this feels different from the norm as far as the safety-first aviation industry is concerned. Usually HN has quite a few people more intimately involved with aviation — question to them: does this feel odd to you as well, or is this a fairly typical response to a problem of this nature?

TorKlingberg 8y ago

> mandate that Boeing Co implement design changes by April that have been in the works for months I assume that just before this announcement the FAA had a phone call with Boeing confirming the will have the fix ready by April. This way the FAA gets to looks tough without harming Boeing in any way.

supercanuck 8y ago
Why should they care how they want to look appear? It seems we lack people willing to behave on principal. What is the downside to not grounding planes that have killed 300 people until April when the fix is ready and we can get pilots training? Where in the constitution does it say we must protect shareholders of airlines and save them 3 weeks of lost revenue from ...(checks notes)... 30 planes ...(Southwest)? If something happens between now and then on this airplane, and it may not even be related to the issue, how much trust is lost in the United States of America and its aviation industry. it just seems quite short sighted.
sschueller 8y ago
That's still a huge gamble. What are the odds of another one crashing before April?

techie128 8y ago

Grounding the aircraft as a precaution would have been a wise decision especially considering that lives once lost cannot be recovered. Monetary losses, however, can be.

gscott 8y ago
Grounding these planes would mean bringing in many dozens of out-of-service airplanes from storage.