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That would mean Southwest strongly believes the lack of "AOA DISAGREE" caused the crashes, so they are safe to continue flying their fleet. If so, they should c

by dahdum 8y ago

That would mean Southwest strongly believes the lack of "AOA DISAGREE" caused the crashes, so they are safe to continue flying their fleet. If so, they should come out and say it. Right now, 737 Max Fleet is the deadliest plane per mile that is in the air [1], by a wide margin. Maybe it's an anomaly and the rate is much lower, but by the same reasoning, it could be worse. I'm not flying on one, and my opinion of Southwest and American is at a new low. 1. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-boeing-737-max-is-now-the-deadliest-mainstream-jetliner-203441321.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-boeing-737-max-is-now-the...

outworlder 8y ago
> That would mean Southwest strongly believes the lack of "AOA DISAGREE" caused the crashes No, that only means that they believe this will improve pilot's situational awareness. You don't need that feature to override uncommanded trim. Until the FAA says the aircraft is unsafe, your opinion of these airlines is misplaced. They went beyond what's legally required and added an additional safety feature. Southwest exclusively flies 737s. They have one of the largest pilot corps for that type. The airline has good safety and maintenance records.
- dahdum 8y ago
  While I understand your point and appreciate your knowledge of the situation, I’m left with the idea that while the rest of the world is grounding these planes until more is known Southwest is flying them anyway. The only motive I can see for them to do so is money. What’s the non-monetary harm in grounding until more is known? They are a small percentage of their fleet.
ams6110 8y ago
Southwest are extremely experienced with the 737 in general and have specifically trained on MCAS and its potential failures on the MAX. Southwest have been flying since the 1960s, and have I think a total of (3) fatalities. No relation or association to them but the operator and their training matters. Southwest are by any measure one of the safest airlines in the world.
ams6110 8y ago
They have said it. At least, their airline pilots union has. https://swaparesources.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/assets/pdf/Press_Releases/Ethiopian_Airlines_Flight_302_Update_2.pdf https://swaparesources.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/assets/pdf... .. the MAX aircraft has 17,000 recordable parameters and Southwest has compiled and analyzed a tremendous amount of data from more than 41,000 flights operated by the 34 MAX aircraft on property, and the data supports Southwest's continued confidence in the airworthiness and safety of the MAX. ... SWAPA also has pushed hard for Angle of Attack (AOA) sensor displays to be put on all our aircraft and those are now being implemented into the fleet. All of these tools, in addition to SWAPA Pilots having the most experience on 737s in the industry, give me no pause that not only are our aircraft safe, but you are the safest 737 operators in the sky.
Gibbon1 8y ago
One thing that I keep rolling over in my head is right now it wouldn't appear that the pilots should have been been able to fly without instruments when they crashed. And both crashed apparently due to the pilots being unable to control pitch. Two lost aircraft. Both new. Both with the same symptoms. Under conditions you would not expect to lose an aircraft. That's a really really bad sign.

by dahdum 8y ago

outworlder 8y ago

> That would mean Southwest strongly believes the lack of "AOA DISAGREE" caused the crashes No, that only means that they believe this will improve pilot's situational awareness. You don't need that feature to override uncommanded trim. Until the FAA says the aircraft is unsafe, your opinion of these airlines is misplaced. They went beyond what's legally required and added an additional safety feature. Southwest exclusively flies 737s. They have one of the largest pilot corps for that type. The airline has good safety and maintenance records.

dahdum 8y ago
While I understand your point and appreciate your knowledge of the situation, I’m left with the idea that while the rest of the world is grounding these planes until more is known Southwest is flying them anyway. The only motive I can see for them to do so is money. What’s the non-monetary harm in grounding until more is known? They are a small percentage of their fleet.

ams6110 8y ago

Southwest are extremely experienced with the 737 in general and have specifically trained on MCAS and its potential failures on the MAX. Southwest have been flying since the 1960s, and have I think a total of (3) fatalities. No relation or association to them but the operator and their training matters. Southwest are by any measure one of the safest airlines in the world.

ams6110 8y ago

They have said it. At least, their airline pilots union has. https://swaparesources.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/assets/pdf/Press_Releases/Ethiopian_Airlines_Flight_302_Update_2.pdf https://swaparesources.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/assets/pdf... .. the MAX aircraft has 17,000 recordable parameters and Southwest has compiled and analyzed a tremendous amount of data from more than 41,000 flights operated by the 34 MAX aircraft on property, and the data supports Southwest's continued confidence in the airworthiness and safety of the MAX. ... SWAPA also has pushed hard for Angle of Attack (AOA) sensor displays to be put on all our aircraft and those are now being implemented into the fleet. All of these tools, in addition to SWAPA Pilots having the most experience on 737s in the industry, give me no pause that not only are our aircraft safe, but you are the safest 737 operators in the sky.

Gibbon1 8y ago

One thing that I keep rolling over in my head is right now it wouldn't appear that the pilots should have been been able to fly without instruments when they crashed. And both crashed apparently due to the pilots being unable to control pitch. Two lost aircraft. Both new. Both with the same symptoms. Under conditions you would not expect to lose an aircraft. That's a really really bad sign.