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That seems like the weakest part of the argument — Walmart, Kroger, Walgreens, Costco, and every other major retailer has a similar program. All use sales data

That seems like the weakest part of the argument — Walmart, Kroger, Walgreens, Costco, and every other major retailer has a similar program. All use sales data to determine what sells best and copy it. I did this for a decade, designing store brand medical devices for all the major retailers. There are plenty of legitimate critiques of Amazon. The "private label" one is by far the weakest.

mschuster91 8y ago
The difference between the other major retailers and Amazon is the search. When I go through a physical store I will see everything that they have up for sale and have the choice of buying everything - but on Amazon the sheer amount of products that are showing up in searches is the problem. Hard enough to compete against other vendors for the place on the first two search pages, it's unfair that Amazon gives their own brand an advantage.
- replicatorblog 8y ago
  With Amazon, I have the ability to list my product, and buy ads pointing people directly to it. With physical retailers, I have to hope I can convince the retailer to stock it, often have to pay up front for shelf space, and then have to continue to pay co-op fees for advertising services of dubious value. Moreover, with Amazon, I know exactly how many units have been sold at any time and have the ability, for a fee, to get feedback from the buyers. With retail, you only get a rough estimate of sales, usually lagging by a quarter, and have no easy way to survey buyers. I'm not saying that Amazon is acting like a great corporate citizen, but having worked with Amazon and most of the major national retailers, I'd take Amazon in a heartbeat.
- ChrisLomont 8y ago
  Plenty of physical stores do that too - place their brand at eye height, in more places, featured in their ads, etc. Amazon controls a large but minority of pretty much any market their in, until you start making smaller and smaller market definitions to the point of being ludicrous. As such, not being a monopoly, they're perfectly fine to do all this they want.
- mstolpm 8y ago
  Funny you mention that. Because my experience is different: I often have to wade through shady marketplace offers with hundreds of fake reviews and paid ads. I have to dig deeper or explicitly search for AmazonBasics products to even find the USB cables or tablet stands from Amazon itself. It might be that personalization is in effect here (or some sort criteria), but I sometimes would like to better filter marketplace offers I don't even trust.
- scarface74 8y ago
  And manufacturers also pay retailers for improve placement. Unlike online, you never know which product is in place because of paid placement.
- azeotropic 8y ago
  As a consumer, I'd say search is Amazon's weakest link. It's often easier to find products on Amazon through Google or DuckDuckGo than through Amazon's own website. Product metadata is so poorly curated that Amazon's filters are pretty useless; compare sometime to specialist retailers like Microcenter or NewEgg where curation is much more complete. I often search for the combination of features I want on other sites and then look for the same exact product number on Amazon to check for a better deal (and Amazon isn't always the cheapest).
fcarraldo 8y ago
Walmart, Kroger, Walgreens and Costco are not marketplaces, they're retailers, and they have contracts with suppliers and pay distributors to purchase goods to resell to consumers. Amazon is a marketplace where any retailer can list their goods for sale. I believe Warren's argument is that Amazon is abusing their position as the marketplace platform owner by listing their own goods at prices that undercut marketplace retailers.
- criddell 8y ago
  Walmart.com is a marketplace.
- jsight 8y ago
  So your argument is that a marketplace is a place where it is easier for a third-party to get their goods sold than a retailer? And the distinction is how a supplier gets their product in is the differentiator? And then the argument is that the marketplace (where it is easier to get listed) should be regulated more than the retailer (which often uses control over sales to push prices up)? I'm not onboard with this.
  - strange_quark 8y ago
    The argument is that retailers take on risk by agreeing to sell a product since they purchase the product upfront. A marketplace like Amazon is different because they can take on 0 risk while still collecting all the data about what's selling and then turn around and undercut the vendor with an Amazon Basics product risk free.
    - extra88 8y ago
      First, I think large retailers like Walmart can reduce or even eliminate the risk of selling a product in their contracts with product producers, making it effectively like selling on consignment. How profitable is Amazon Basics anyway? I bet it's small numbers. If dropping it was enough to get regulators to go away, I bet Amazon would drop it in a heartbeat. Other aspects like Prime and AWS are worth fighting over, both in terms of their value to the company and their potential to harm markets.

mschuster91 8y ago

The difference between the other major retailers and Amazon is the search. When I go through a physical store I will see everything that they have up for sale and have the choice of buying everything - but on Amazon the sheer amount of products that are showing up in searches is the problem. Hard enough to compete against other vendors for the place on the first two search pages, it's unfair that Amazon gives their own brand an advantage.

replicatorblog 8y ago
With Amazon, I have the ability to list my product, and buy ads pointing people directly to it. With physical retailers, I have to hope I can convince the retailer to stock it, often have to pay up front for shelf space, and then have to continue to pay co-op fees for advertising services of dubious value. Moreover, with Amazon, I know exactly how many units have been sold at any time and have the ability, for a fee, to get feedback from the buyers. With retail, you only get a rough estimate of sales, usually lagging by a quarter, and have no easy way to survey buyers. I'm not saying that Amazon is acting like a great corporate citizen, but having worked with Amazon and most of the major national retailers, I'd take Amazon in a heartbeat.
ChrisLomont 8y ago
Plenty of physical stores do that too - place their brand at eye height, in more places, featured in their ads, etc. Amazon controls a large but minority of pretty much any market their in, until you start making smaller and smaller market definitions to the point of being ludicrous. As such, not being a monopoly, they're perfectly fine to do all this they want.
mstolpm 8y ago
Funny you mention that. Because my experience is different: I often have to wade through shady marketplace offers with hundreds of fake reviews and paid ads. I have to dig deeper or explicitly search for AmazonBasics products to even find the USB cables or tablet stands from Amazon itself. It might be that personalization is in effect here (or some sort criteria), but I sometimes would like to better filter marketplace offers I don't even trust.
scarface74 8y ago
And manufacturers also pay retailers for improve placement. Unlike online, you never know which product is in place because of paid placement.
azeotropic 8y ago
As a consumer, I'd say search is Amazon's weakest link. It's often easier to find products on Amazon through Google or DuckDuckGo than through Amazon's own website. Product metadata is so poorly curated that Amazon's filters are pretty useless; compare sometime to specialist retailers like Microcenter or NewEgg where curation is much more complete. I often search for the combination of features I want on other sites and then look for the same exact product number on Amazon to check for a better deal (and Amazon isn't always the cheapest).

fcarraldo 8y ago

Walmart, Kroger, Walgreens and Costco are not marketplaces, they're retailers, and they have contracts with suppliers and pay distributors to purchase goods to resell to consumers. Amazon is a marketplace where any retailer can list their goods for sale. I believe Warren's argument is that Amazon is abusing their position as the marketplace platform owner by listing their own goods at prices that undercut marketplace retailers.

criddell 8y ago
Walmart.com is a marketplace.
jsight 8y ago
So your argument is that a marketplace is a place where it is easier for a third-party to get their goods sold than a retailer? And the distinction is how a supplier gets their product in is the differentiator? And then the argument is that the marketplace (where it is easier to get listed) should be regulated more than the retailer (which often uses control over sales to push prices up)? I'm not onboard with this.
- strange_quark 8y ago
  The argument is that retailers take on risk by agreeing to sell a product since they purchase the product upfront. A marketplace like Amazon is different because they can take on 0 risk while still collecting all the data about what's selling and then turn around and undercut the vendor with an Amazon Basics product risk free.
  - extra88 8y ago
    First, I think large retailers like Walmart can reduce or even eliminate the risk of selling a product in their contracts with product producers, making it effectively like selling on consignment. How profitable is Amazon Basics anyway? I bet it's small numbers. If dropping it was enough to get regulators to go away, I bet Amazon would drop it in a heartbeat. Other aspects like Prime and AWS are worth fighting over, both in terms of their value to the company and their potential to harm markets.