4 ms·

I am surprised it is possible to get a corporate credit card without a human’s name or identity tied to it.

by ilamont 8y ago

SilasX 8y ago
Isn't it tied to someone via the corporation's ownership, still?
- ilamont 8y ago
  The article said it was possible to register an LLC in those states without a name, and the CC is (apparently) tied to the LLC, not the owner or employee.
  - SilasX 8y ago
    But they still record the name of the person who registers it, right? It's not like they'll find a homicide tied to a CC and then be like, "oh, the CC is in the name of an ownerless corporation, I guess we're out of luck".
    - cypherpunks01 8y ago
      The article is slightly vague on this point. It says NV/WY/NM "don’t require corporations to record their owner", but that is not really accurate. The owners are recorded when the LLCs are filed with the secretary of state, however these states are simply willing to keep the identities of the owners private, without publishing them as most other states do. As in most other states, you do need a Registered Agent, but you can delegate this to an attorney or company who serves to receive legal notices, correspondence, etc. If there is any type of law enforcement investigation of the company, police would simply go to the secretary of state to determine the owners.
      - stcredzero 8y ago
        The owners are recorded when the LLCs are filed with the secretary of state, however these states are simply willing to keep the identities of the owners private How hackable/social engineering proof are these state agencies? How likely is it that they are already compromised by people acting as resources for federal and non-governmental organizations?
        cypherpunks01 8y ago
        They're just regular departments of their respective states. That is to say, probably about average susceptibility to hacking and social engineering. I don't know any specifics about what might be sent to the feds, but you can be damn sure if the IRS or any other federal agency calls the state they will fully cooperate. None of this would actually work to hide from the government, just from random non-expert members of the public.
        stcredzero 8y ago
        None of this would actually work to hide from the government, just from random non-expert members of the public. In 2019, one should be most worried about throngs of people who have less income and delusions of grandeur who can organize their groupthink online.
    - tetra_proxy 8y ago
      Not all Corp credit cards record the name of the person registering them. The ones my company uses are all tied to the company and we internally manage keeping up with who has what.
      - SilasX 8y ago
        I meant registering the corporation, not the CC.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
- stuntkite 8y ago
  A revocable trust can own an LLC. In that situation your name only exists on a piece of paper at your house. It's extremely common to get a Nevada or Delaware LLC with a revocable trust to protect identity. There are tons of libertarian companies that will sell you kits to set it all up.
  - gubbrora 8y ago
    That's fascinating. How and why?
    - stuntkite 8y ago
      I am not a lawyer, but I know people who have done it in the past. The states where you can do it value corporate privacy. When you create your LLC with a revocable trust, as far as I am aware, all you have to present is the first page of the trust document and the declarations of ownership are on later pages, the trust owns the LLC, you own the trust and your ownership is never recorded in public. It's complicated and is a great tool for people trying to do good (protecting identity for safety) and bad (patent trolls). https://www.thebalance.com/pros-and-cons-of-revocable-living-trusts-3505384 https://www.thebalance.com/pros-and-cons-of-revocable-living...
    - elliekelly 8y ago
      I'm an attorney and used to work for a bank. One of the hats I wore there was Anti-Money Laundering Officer. We had a potential client with this type of arrangement that went through several countries so I insisted on getting more and more information because it seemed suspicious that someone would go through all of that trouble unless they were doing something illegal. It turned out the gentleman traveled internationally quite a lot for business... and had accumulated three different families on three different continents. His revocable trust owned several LLCs as part of a complex plan to facilitate payments to all of his wives and children upon his death without them finding out about one another. I regret that I wasn't privy to his plans for keeping them apart at his funeral.
      - stuntkite 8y ago

I am surprised it is possible to get a corporate credit card without a human’s name or identity tied to it.

SilasX 8y ago

Isn't it tied to someone via the corporation's ownership, still?

ilamont 8y ago
The article said it was possible to register an LLC in those states without a name, and the CC is (apparently) tied to the LLC, not the owner or employee.
- SilasX 8y ago
  But they still record the name of the person who registers it, right? It's not like they'll find a homicide tied to a CC and then be like, "oh, the CC is in the name of an ownerless corporation, I guess we're out of luck".
  - cypherpunks01 8y ago
    The article is slightly vague on this point. It says NV/WY/NM "don’t require corporations to record their owner", but that is not really accurate. The owners are recorded when the LLCs are filed with the secretary of state, however these states are simply willing to keep the identities of the owners private, without publishing them as most other states do. As in most other states, you do need a Registered Agent, but you can delegate this to an attorney or company who serves to receive legal notices, correspondence, etc. If there is any type of law enforcement investigation of the company, police would simply go to the secretary of state to determine the owners.
    - stcredzero 8y ago
      The owners are recorded when the LLCs are filed with the secretary of state, however these states are simply willing to keep the identities of the owners private How hackable/social engineering proof are these state agencies? How likely is it that they are already compromised by people acting as resources for federal and non-governmental organizations?
      - cypherpunks01 8y ago
        They're just regular departments of their respective states. That is to say, probably about average susceptibility to hacking and social engineering. I don't know any specifics about what might be sent to the feds, but you can be damn sure if the IRS or any other federal agency calls the state they will fully cooperate. None of this would actually work to hide from the government, just from random non-expert members of the public.
        stcredzero 8y ago
        None of this would actually work to hide from the government, just from random non-expert members of the public. In 2019, one should be most worried about throngs of people who have less income and delusions of grandeur who can organize their groupthink online.
  - tetra_proxy 8y ago
    Not all Corp credit cards record the name of the person registering them. The ones my company uses are all tied to the company and we internally manage keeping up with who has what.
    - SilasX 8y ago
      I meant registering the corporation, not the CC.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
stuntkite 8y ago
A revocable trust can own an LLC. In that situation your name only exists on a piece of paper at your house. It's extremely common to get a Nevada or Delaware LLC with a revocable trust to protect identity. There are tons of libertarian companies that will sell you kits to set it all up.
- gubbrora 8y ago
  That's fascinating. How and why?
  - stuntkite 8y ago
    I am not a lawyer, but I know people who have done it in the past. The states where you can do it value corporate privacy. When you create your LLC with a revocable trust, as far as I am aware, all you have to present is the first page of the trust document and the declarations of ownership are on later pages, the trust owns the LLC, you own the trust and your ownership is never recorded in public. It's complicated and is a great tool for people trying to do good (protecting identity for safety) and bad (patent trolls). https://www.thebalance.com/pros-and-cons-of-revocable-living-trusts-3505384 https://www.thebalance.com/pros-and-cons-of-revocable-living...
  - elliekelly 8y ago
    I'm an attorney and used to work for a bank. One of the hats I wore there was Anti-Money Laundering Officer. We had a potential client with this type of arrangement that went through several countries so I insisted on getting more and more information because it seemed suspicious that someone would go through all of that trouble unless they were doing something illegal. It turned out the gentleman traveled internationally quite a lot for business... and had accumulated three different families on three different continents. His revocable trust owned several LLCs as part of a complex plan to facilitate payments to all of his wives and children upon his death without them finding out about one another. I regret that I wasn't privy to his plans for keeping them apart at his funeral.
    - stuntkite 8y ago