6 ms·

I use FF as my daily driver on all devices. It is a very, very, competitive browser compared to Chrome and it's offshoots. In some area's, or with some plugins,

by cies 8y ago

I use FF as my daily driver on all devices. It is a very, very, competitive browser compared to Chrome and it's offshoots. In some area's, or with some plugins, it wins, and in other's it looses. I also really like the that Mozilla is actively involved in activism and thereby does a huge service to our safety/privacy online (refer to the recent DarkMatter story). I'm sad FF share is declining. I wonder what I can do to counter this trend.

samcday 8y ago
Keep using Firefox! Encourage everyone you know (without being too obnoxious of course) to switch. Help them switch if they’re receptive to the idea. Support them in staying with Firefox if they have extension requirements, workflow concerns, whatever. The pitch for Firefox should be easy nowadays. Talk about how it’s privacy-focussed while still being competitive with Chrome in performance and ease of use. A lot of people know that Fa$ebook is evil and gobbling up all their data, but they don’t feel like there’s that much they can practically do. Switching to Firefox and using Containers is something anyone can do easily. Of course there’s probably bigger things that you could do. But thinking locally (if you’re not already) is absolutely required before you then think globally, IMO.
- eykanspelgud 8y ago
  I wish I could agree, and if I were experiencing a different situation, I would be in the same camp. Firefox 65 keeps crashing on my Linux box. I've tried downgrading to 64 and below. But whatever updates were installed when I installed FF65 also crash FF64 and under. It was either change OS or let FF go. I've since moved to brave browser, but would happily go back to FF if/when I figure out and troubleshoot the issue.
  - samcday 8y ago
    That's a shame :( FWIW I'm on 65.0.1 (64-bit) on Ubuntu 18.04.2 and have had no major issues. I use Firefox exclusively and use my browser heavily all day long.
  - cbsks 8y ago
    Firefox has been rock solid on my Linux box for the past 6 years or so. Are you downloading it from Mozilla, or from your distro’s package manager?
    - eykanspelgud 8y ago
      I've done both. Same issue. :(
  - cies 8y ago
    Also on FF65 on Ubuntu (KDE Neon) to be exact, and runs like a charm. Yes it hogs memory (with lots of tabs open), but Chrome does that too, so I consider something outside my realm of control.
  - pmoriarty 8y ago
    It would help Firefox if you filed a bug report.
  - the_pwner224 8y ago
    I see that you've unsuccessfully tried to install various versions of FF. The problem might be in your FF config, which persists across versions and types (stable vs nightly). The ~/.Mozilla/firefox folder contains all your FF profiles, there should just be one profile named something.default. Delete that folder and start FF and it should work. That folder does contain all your settings so those will be lost (and you can also copy this folder to other computers to copy your entire FF configuration :).
  - bproven 8y ago
    Interesting - I use Fedora 29 and the defaul fedora repo version of FF with no issues on my end. I know that doesnt help, but it sounds like something specific to your setup (which I know still isn/t much solace :( )
    - noir_lord 8y ago
      Same, FF65 on F29 only browser I use no crashes on 3 different machines, one intel GPU, one RX460 (forget which) and one RTX2080.
  - cat199 8y ago
    which distribution are you using? I had serious stability problems on Fedora a few months ago which sounded just like yours - I've since switched to debian for other reasons (with same exact profile data) and things are fine, which made me suspect something in the runtime or build toolchain is different and triggered some subtle bug. not to blame fedora specifically (and who knows if this was a 'me' problem); but distros do differ slightly esp. w/r/t kernel params/threading/builds etc. Might be worth trying FF ESR or running in a different distro container to see if this helps (yes, not convenient, but..) also possibly rebuild your profile (pretty sure I tried this.. but anyhow)
  - cpeterso 8y ago
    Do you mind sharing any Crash Report IDs from your Firefox's about:crashes page? They should point to the crash stack trace, which might be fixable or at least suggest a workaround.
  - joeseeder 8y ago
    crashing is from LLVM and X11 on amdgpus
- ignoramous 8y ago
  I wish duckduckgo had supported Firefox in addition to building their own privacy focused browser https://duckduckgo.com/app https://duckduckgo.com/app
AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
I wish I could trust Firefox not to be basically the same evil Chrome is if it gets to roughly the same position. It has already betrayed the trust of its userbase twice in recent memory.
- bryanlarsen 8y ago
  False equivalence. Yes, Firefox has screwed up, but the errors were relatively minor compared to the privacy tire fire that Chrome is, and the errors were corrected quickly when pointed out.
  - dfrage 8y ago
    It depends on what your threat model is. A lot of people prefer the no doubt privacy tire fire that Chrome is over the security tire fire that Firefox has become. It's one thing to trust Google, quite another to trust Mozilla and ever more 3rd parties which it adds to Firefox. In my old version of Linux I've been using straight Firefox primarily for one-off financial transactions. On the scratch installation of the new version I'm now reminded again of all the intrusive third party screwups. I'm moving my primary browser, with shields like a very paranoid uMatrix, to Chromium to party address the privacy issues, and have about decided to also install Chrome, starting it up just for my financial transactions and then exiting. I think there's a lot lower chance Google will siphon off my account information than one of Mozilla's current or future 3rd party partners, especially as Firefox's declining market share makes it ever more desperate.
    - Yoric 8y ago
      Last time I checked there were no third-parties bundled in Firefox.
      - dfrage 8y ago
        Ubuntu 18.04, stock Firefox installed with the desktop, version 64.0.1, has in your face "Recommended by Pocket" items. One encourages me to use DuckDuckGo, but....
adzm 8y ago
Firefox on Android supports extensions and adblockers like ublock! This is a huge advantage.
- chopin 8y ago
  I use both uMatrix and uBlock on Firefox for Android. I must say, compared to desktop both are comparatively awkward to use. It'd be nice if Firefox could overhaul the way extensions are handled on Android. As an example the reload button in the extensions screen does not work (it doesn't seem to open in the context of the current page). As well I needed ages to find out that after opening the uMatrix screen I had to tap the phones back button to get back to the originating page.
  - gorhill 8y ago
    It does not work for the first tab opened in the browser. It works for all subsequent tabs you open. Related bugzilla issue: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1410749 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1410749
    - chopin 8y ago
      Thanks for the feedback :-). However opening new tabs doesn't help for the following workflow: A site breaks due to missing Javascript. I open uMatrix in via the Firefox menu. The matrix page is displayed in a new tab. After changing settings I press the refresh button on top of the uMatrix page (that's my workflow on desktop). Only the tooltip is shown (it says "Press shift to bypass browser cache", but the originating site is not reloaded. If you think it's worth opening a bug report for uMatrix, I'll gladly do so.
marricks 8y ago
Firefox did some great things to increase speed in the last couple years (Servo!) but their share still seems to be declining or constant which leads me to a scary thought: Chrome and ilk are just too big to fail. It’s possible Chrome is large enough they could be objectively worse and sites just optimize to Chrome or people just end up not caring about alternatives.
KorematsuFred 8y ago
I Wish Mozilla could come up with a some kind of promotion system where all indie developers who have apps, websites, blogs etc. could request our users to use Firefox instead of chrome. For example a "Best Viewed In FF" image or Some kind widget in app.
- classichasclass 8y ago
  Actually, I'd argue Mozilla wouldn't want a "best viewed in Firefox" campaign since the standards should apply to everyone, even if some browsers do better with some feature sets than others. There are already existing ways to show your support, such as https://mozilla.github.io/for-firefox/ https://mozilla.github.io/for-firefox/
  - kannanvijayan 8y ago
    I'm a Mozilla employee. I'm not speaking for the org as a whole, but I share your view, and I'd expect most/many other employees to agree with you on that point. Pages should strive to be compatible with all browsers, and self-dealing in the space of compatibility is something that would go against the ethos and mission (IMHO, and I would expect many others). That said, I expect that we would support a similar campaign, just advocating for Firefox using other points instead of "best viewed" style compatibility.
    - KorematsuFred 8y ago
      Again do not read too much into my specific choice of words. It could not worded that "Use the best standard adherent browser like FF" or similar. If Mozilla's mission is a more open and standard compliant web instead of walled gardens that message needs to be conveyed to ordinary users and explained as to why it is better. I am not a copywriter so I do not what that messages should be but I think it should be done.
      - kannanvijayan 8y ago
        Of course - I'm not assuming anything much about your suggestion. It seems like a great idea in fact. I personally don't have a read on how much support there would be among well known independent/commnity-aligned services for such a campaign. If there did exist a widespread sentiment of that sort, it'd be great.
flukus 8y ago
I use firefox all the time, but the do a terrible job at creating a good browser that I can recommend to people. Biggest problems: 1. Tab handling is horrible compared to chrome. Vertical tab plugins are theoretically better, but are broken by the new extension system. If you install the plugins you still get tabs across the top. 2. Handling of native themes. Mozilla started attempting this and failed miserably with obviously no QA. They will match my themes dark background but not match the lighter colored text, making the inputs black on black. 3. Non-native UI's. They can support a cross platform UI framework but not a cross platform browser? 4. Whatever the hell is going on with that hamburger menu, they seem to change it all the time and I can never find my bookmarks. The spend so much on experiments, rewriting things in rust, switching UI frameworks and barely used experiments like webasm and webgl but won't invest in making their core browser experience better. They're stuck doing things that are fun for developers to work on.

by cies 8y ago

samcday 8y ago

Keep using Firefox! Encourage everyone you know (without being too obnoxious of course) to switch. Help them switch if they’re receptive to the idea. Support them in staying with Firefox if they have extension requirements, workflow concerns, whatever. The pitch for Firefox should be easy nowadays. Talk about how it’s privacy-focussed while still being competitive with Chrome in performance and ease of use. A lot of people know that Fa$ebook is evil and gobbling up all their data, but they don’t feel like there’s that much they can practically do. Switching to Firefox and using Containers is something anyone can do easily. Of course there’s probably bigger things that you could do. But thinking locally (if you’re not already) is absolutely required before you then think globally, IMO.

eykanspelgud 8y ago
I wish I could agree, and if I were experiencing a different situation, I would be in the same camp. Firefox 65 keeps crashing on my Linux box. I've tried downgrading to 64 and below. But whatever updates were installed when I installed FF65 also crash FF64 and under. It was either change OS or let FF go. I've since moved to brave browser, but would happily go back to FF if/when I figure out and troubleshoot the issue.
- samcday 8y ago
  That's a shame :( FWIW I'm on 65.0.1 (64-bit) on Ubuntu 18.04.2 and have had no major issues. I use Firefox exclusively and use my browser heavily all day long.
- cbsks 8y ago
  Firefox has been rock solid on my Linux box for the past 6 years or so. Are you downloading it from Mozilla, or from your distro’s package manager?
  - eykanspelgud 8y ago
    I've done both. Same issue. :(
- cies 8y ago
  Also on FF65 on Ubuntu (KDE Neon) to be exact, and runs like a charm. Yes it hogs memory (with lots of tabs open), but Chrome does that too, so I consider something outside my realm of control.
- pmoriarty 8y ago
  It would help Firefox if you filed a bug report.
- the_pwner224 8y ago
  I see that you've unsuccessfully tried to install various versions of FF. The problem might be in your FF config, which persists across versions and types (stable vs nightly). The ~/.Mozilla/firefox folder contains all your FF profiles, there should just be one profile named something.default. Delete that folder and start FF and it should work. That folder does contain all your settings so those will be lost (and you can also copy this folder to other computers to copy your entire FF configuration :).
- bproven 8y ago
  Interesting - I use Fedora 29 and the defaul fedora repo version of FF with no issues on my end. I know that doesnt help, but it sounds like something specific to your setup (which I know still isn/t much solace :( )
  - noir_lord 8y ago
    Same, FF65 on F29 only browser I use no crashes on 3 different machines, one intel GPU, one RX460 (forget which) and one RTX2080.
- cat199 8y ago
  which distribution are you using? I had serious stability problems on Fedora a few months ago which sounded just like yours - I've since switched to debian for other reasons (with same exact profile data) and things are fine, which made me suspect something in the runtime or build toolchain is different and triggered some subtle bug. not to blame fedora specifically (and who knows if this was a 'me' problem); but distros do differ slightly esp. w/r/t kernel params/threading/builds etc. Might be worth trying FF ESR or running in a different distro container to see if this helps (yes, not convenient, but..) also possibly rebuild your profile (pretty sure I tried this.. but anyhow)
- cpeterso 8y ago
  Do you mind sharing any Crash Report IDs from your Firefox's about:crashes page? They should point to the crash stack trace, which might be fixable or at least suggest a workaround.
- joeseeder 8y ago
  crashing is from LLVM and X11 on amdgpus
ignoramous 8y ago
I wish duckduckgo had supported Firefox in addition to building their own privacy focused browser https://duckduckgo.com/app https://duckduckgo.com/app

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago

I wish I could trust Firefox not to be basically the same evil Chrome is if it gets to roughly the same position. It has already betrayed the trust of its userbase twice in recent memory.

bryanlarsen 8y ago
False equivalence. Yes, Firefox has screwed up, but the errors were relatively minor compared to the privacy tire fire that Chrome is, and the errors were corrected quickly when pointed out.
- dfrage 8y ago
  It depends on what your threat model is. A lot of people prefer the no doubt privacy tire fire that Chrome is over the security tire fire that Firefox has become. It's one thing to trust Google, quite another to trust Mozilla and ever more 3rd parties which it adds to Firefox. In my old version of Linux I've been using straight Firefox primarily for one-off financial transactions. On the scratch installation of the new version I'm now reminded again of all the intrusive third party screwups. I'm moving my primary browser, with shields like a very paranoid uMatrix, to Chromium to party address the privacy issues, and have about decided to also install Chrome, starting it up just for my financial transactions and then exiting. I think there's a lot lower chance Google will siphon off my account information than one of Mozilla's current or future 3rd party partners, especially as Firefox's declining market share makes it ever more desperate.
  - Yoric 8y ago
    Last time I checked there were no third-parties bundled in Firefox.
    - dfrage 8y ago
      Ubuntu 18.04, stock Firefox installed with the desktop, version 64.0.1, has in your face "Recommended by Pocket" items. One encourages me to use DuckDuckGo, but....

adzm 8y ago

Firefox on Android supports extensions and adblockers like ublock! This is a huge advantage.

chopin 8y ago
I use both uMatrix and uBlock on Firefox for Android. I must say, compared to desktop both are comparatively awkward to use. It'd be nice if Firefox could overhaul the way extensions are handled on Android. As an example the reload button in the extensions screen does not work (it doesn't seem to open in the context of the current page). As well I needed ages to find out that after opening the uMatrix screen I had to tap the phones back button to get back to the originating page.
- gorhill 8y ago
  It does not work for the first tab opened in the browser. It works for all subsequent tabs you open. Related bugzilla issue: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1410749 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1410749
  - chopin 8y ago
    Thanks for the feedback :-). However opening new tabs doesn't help for the following workflow: A site breaks due to missing Javascript. I open uMatrix in via the Firefox menu. The matrix page is displayed in a new tab. After changing settings I press the refresh button on top of the uMatrix page (that's my workflow on desktop). Only the tooltip is shown (it says "Press shift to bypass browser cache", but the originating site is not reloaded. If you think it's worth opening a bug report for uMatrix, I'll gladly do so.

marricks 8y ago

Firefox did some great things to increase speed in the last couple years (Servo!) but their share still seems to be declining or constant which leads me to a scary thought: Chrome and ilk are just too big to fail. It’s possible Chrome is large enough they could be objectively worse and sites just optimize to Chrome or people just end up not caring about alternatives.

KorematsuFred 8y ago

I Wish Mozilla could come up with a some kind of promotion system where all indie developers who have apps, websites, blogs etc. could request our users to use Firefox instead of chrome. For example a "Best Viewed In FF" image or Some kind widget in app.

classichasclass 8y ago
Actually, I'd argue Mozilla wouldn't want a "best viewed in Firefox" campaign since the standards should apply to everyone, even if some browsers do better with some feature sets than others. There are already existing ways to show your support, such as https://mozilla.github.io/for-firefox/ https://mozilla.github.io/for-firefox/
- kannanvijayan 8y ago
  I'm a Mozilla employee. I'm not speaking for the org as a whole, but I share your view, and I'd expect most/many other employees to agree with you on that point. Pages should strive to be compatible with all browsers, and self-dealing in the space of compatibility is something that would go against the ethos and mission (IMHO, and I would expect many others). That said, I expect that we would support a similar campaign, just advocating for Firefox using other points instead of "best viewed" style compatibility.
  - KorematsuFred 8y ago
    Again do not read too much into my specific choice of words. It could not worded that "Use the best standard adherent browser like FF" or similar. If Mozilla's mission is a more open and standard compliant web instead of walled gardens that message needs to be conveyed to ordinary users and explained as to why it is better. I am not a copywriter so I do not what that messages should be but I think it should be done.
    - kannanvijayan 8y ago
      Of course - I'm not assuming anything much about your suggestion. It seems like a great idea in fact. I personally don't have a read on how much support there would be among well known independent/commnity-aligned services for such a campaign. If there did exist a widespread sentiment of that sort, it'd be great.

flukus 8y ago

I use firefox all the time, but the do a terrible job at creating a good browser that I can recommend to people. Biggest problems: 1. Tab handling is horrible compared to chrome. Vertical tab plugins are theoretically better, but are broken by the new extension system. If you install the plugins you still get tabs across the top. 2. Handling of native themes. Mozilla started attempting this and failed miserably with obviously no QA. They will match my themes dark background but not match the lighter colored text, making the inputs black on black. 3. Non-native UI's. They can support a cross platform UI framework but not a cross platform browser? 4. Whatever the hell is going on with that hamburger menu, they seem to change it all the time and I can never find my bookmarks. The spend so much on experiments, rewriting things in rust, switching UI frameworks and barely used experiments like webasm and webgl but won't invest in making their core browser experience better. They're stuck doing things that are fun for developers to work on.