4 ms·
W3C is partly to blame for the situation. They don't bother to complete their spec work anymore - W3C HTML5.3 is officially at CR status, but hasn't be worked o
by tannhaeuser 8y ago
W3C is partly to blame for the situation. They don't bother to complete their spec work anymore - W3C HTML5.3 is officially at CR status, but hasn't be worked on since october, and SVG 2, which has been reduced basically to include SVG 1.2's vectorEffect=nonScalingStroke into SVG 1.1, and remove SVG 1.1 features that were never supported by browsers anyway, looks even less like it'll ever be completed.
At the same time W3C's CSS WG churns out specs (subgrid, trigonometric functions, etc.), adding to the infeasability to code a browser from scratch ever again.
If they want to contribute, they could do a lot of things:
publish a reduced, rational profile of HTML (and in particular CSS) to give developers a usable target specification, rather than a bunch of isolated specs at various degrees of completion. They could also publish "real" specs with formal semantics and grammars, rather than the prose they publish now, which doesn't know if it wants to be an authoring or browser implementation guide. They could also create a browser from scratch in a formally verifiable language. They could do more lobbying. Or they could disband, to show the world that the public doesn't sit at the table when FAANG decides about the future of human communication.
As it is, the web is becoming a net-negative, a medium for mass propaganda and censorship, an overly complicated turd leading into monopolies, and a place where creators don't get their share. W3C needs to demonstrate the actual value of the web to society, not naively appeal to idealists with their futile "save the web" campaigning. The web is a means to an end, and failing, not an end in itself.
- dmitriid 8y agoDon’t forget that W3C has been stealing WHATWG’s HTML specifications and republishing them with credits and attributions stripped: https://www.reddit.com/r/javascript/comments/5swe9b/comment/ddkwft4 https://www.reddit.com/r/javascript/comments/5swe9b/comment/...
- tannhaeuser 8y agoIdk, maybe W3C didn't do all they could to credit WHATWG, but I didn't interpret it that way. People actually reading HTML specs know WHATWG very well. I for one appreciated W3C's efforts to publish a versioned HTML spec which WHATWG never bothered to do. Rather, WHATWG created a self-serving, never-ending process around HTML (but mostly JavaScript APIs) that saw Opera and then MS drop out of creating browsers alltogether. What exactly is the HTML5 shield logo designed to shield against?
- dmitriid 8y agoMS and Opera didn't drop out because WHATWG didn't create versions of the standard. Moreover, Opera was one of the founders of WHATWG, and an evolving standard was (and is) one of the core principles of WHATWG.
- rimliu 8y agoW3C completing or not completing spec has little effect on what's in our browsers. You can put whatever you want in your spec, if no browser vendor implements it it is DOA. Also, why should W3C be busy demonstrating "value of the web to society"?
- JohnFen 8y agoPersonally, I think that HTML5 itself is a great example of how the web is going wrong.