5 ms·

> No amount of marketing can give you the thrill that you get when you slam the accelerator. And this is something that is unique to EVs. Sure, a Porsche will

> No amount of marketing can give you the thrill that you get when you slam the accelerator. And this is something that is unique to EVs. Sure, a Porsche will have a very high max speed. But even it can't beat an eletric motor in acceleration. Instant torque at any speed, not having to "rev up" and no gears are a massive benefit of having such simple drive trains. I think other companies should take notice, and start offering higher performance EVs. Specially since the battery is the main cost driver, and electric engines are tiny. Add more power a 'premium' option. It's not just about the environment, there are some measurable benefits of EVs for car enthusiasts.

georgerobinson 8y ago
One of the largest challenges with high performance EVs is cooling and weight. Both of these affect performance. A Lotus Exige 380 Cup, with the 2GR-FE 3.5 supercharged V6 from the Toyota Camry weights just 1105KG, of which 163KG is the engine, excluding the supercharger. The 85KWh cells in the Model S weighs 540KG in comparison and is almost 50% of the Exige's total weight. I'm not sure how far off we are from solving this but I'm quite looking forward to improved cooling and lightweight cells that will make electric viable for ultra high performance sports cars.
- gameswithgo 8y ago
  on the bright side, that weight penalty can be located very very low. That doesn't help with acceleration but improves braking and cornering performance.
  - georgerobinson 8y ago
    This is a common misconception. Mass is still mass, no matter how optimally it is placed in the chassis. A Lotus Exige already has near perfect weight distribution and low center of gravity. Since it is mid-engined it also has 160KG of engine over the rear axle which improves traction. Adding an extra 500KG and putting it lower in the vehicle will not improve braking performance, handling or agility.
- m463 8y ago
  I've wondered about something similar. The original roadster was based on the elise (similar to exige), and it was heavier. I think the highest performance models now have the largest batteries mostly due to marketing. basically "If you want the performance, pay for more battery than you need". Why not have a 35kwh car, a supercapacitor as a buffer and have it weigh significantly less for better performance? (at the expense of range)
  - georgerobinson 8y ago
    It would be a pain. Take that 35KWh car on track, do a 15 minute session and then have to wait another 45-60 minutes for it to charge back up?
    - m463 8y ago
      If you're talking about the track, then swappable batteries? Also, I wonder how a supercapacitor could increase range? I suspect performance and efficiency would both increase without energy bottlenecks between the motors and the batteries.
clouddrover 8y ago
> Sure, a Porsche will have a very high max speed. But even it can't beat an eletric motor in acceleration. Unless, of course, it's a Porsche Taycan: https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-electric/a21239621/porsche-taycan-mission-e-electric/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-electric/a21239... https://www.engadget.com/2019/03/09/porche-taycan-ev-20-000-reservations/ https://www.engadget.com/2019/03/09/porche-taycan-ev-20-000-... https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/products/porsche-taycan-mission-e-drive-unit-battery-charging-electro-mobility-dossier-sportscar-production-christophorus-387-15827.html https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/products/porsche-taycan-miss...
Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
> I think other companies should take notice, and start offering higher performance EVs I'm a Tesla fanboy and I agree with this wholeheartedly. A lot of my fanboyism is based on the fact that Tesla is the ONLY company making performance EVs. The SLOWEST Tesla is still quicker than the fastest Leaf, Bolt, i3, or any other EV besides the i8, which doesn't count because it's a plug-in hybrid with only 15 miles of electric range. I'm greatly considering a Model 3 Performance at the end of this year, but if another company announces an EV that will do 0-60 in under 3.5 seconds (EDIT: for under $75K) before then, I'd be willing to put off buying an EV to give someone else a chance.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- raesene9 8y ago
  Jaguar I-Pace has 0-60 in 4.6 seconds, don't think that's slower than all Teslas, is it?
  - Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
    Somehow I didn't know of the I-Pace. Between the I-Pace and a Model 3 Performance though, I'd probably go for the Tesla. $10k less, faster, quicker, and longer range.
    - anth_anm 8y ago
      The I-Pace competitor would be the model X. It also starts at double the listed price of the Model 3. I'd rather have an I-pace.
      - Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
        The I-Pace doesn't look that big in pictures, while a Model X is a rather large SUV. I-Pace looks like it's a hair smaller than a Honda CR-V. I'm a bigger fan of smaller cars. Even a Model 3 would feel big to me, since I currently drive a Subaru BRZ (Which is the same car as the Scion FR-S and Toyota GT86).
dublinben 8y ago
The plug-in hybrid Porsche 918 can go 0-60 MPH in 2.2 seconds. I'm pretty sure that demolishes the fastest Tesla models.
- Green_man 8y ago
  the fastest recorded time iirc of the 918 was done by car and driver, at 2.1 seconds 0-60[i was wrong, it was 2.2 seconds]. tesla model S p100D with "ludicrous mode" have been recorded at ~2.2 seconds (fastest i could find was 2.28 seconds from moter trend). the 918 is the fastest recorded production car, and of course a difference of .1-.18 seconds is a bigger deal at ~2 seconds. car and driver is notorious for "dumping the clutch" on a lot of their tests. with the 918's dct, that likely means an automated launch control, though they still have come under fire for pushing the cars to their limit on their 0-60 tests, possibly damaging components in the process. Launch control can be quite hard on performance cars, some even have a lifetime counter on how many times it can be done. in order to enter ludicrous mode in the tesla, you have to agree that you understand it may damage components of the car as well. both cars have instant torque from electric motors, and AWD. the largest limiting factor keeping us from faster 0-60 times is definitely tire technology, most of these cars run on tires with very similar compounds, usually from Michelin or Pirelli. also, at 0-60 in ~3 seconds, it works out to about 1G, which makes me wonder how much people want to accelerate that quickly, or if they just want to be able to talk about the times on their new car.
- URSpider94 8y ago
  Tesla Model S with Ludicrous+: 2.28 seconds. Not quite matching it, but the Porsche is not "demolishing" it either. And the Telsa will carry you and four of your friends, and costs 1/5 as much as the Porsche (which isn't even for sale any more). https://electrek.co/2017/02/07/tesla-model-s-p100d-ludicrous-0-60-mph-motor-trend-test/ https://electrek.co/2017/02/07/tesla-model-s-p100d-ludicrous...

georgerobinson 8y ago

One of the largest challenges with high performance EVs is cooling and weight. Both of these affect performance. A Lotus Exige 380 Cup, with the 2GR-FE 3.5 supercharged V6 from the Toyota Camry weights just 1105KG, of which 163KG is the engine, excluding the supercharger. The 85KWh cells in the Model S weighs 540KG in comparison and is almost 50% of the Exige's total weight. I'm not sure how far off we are from solving this but I'm quite looking forward to improved cooling and lightweight cells that will make electric viable for ultra high performance sports cars.

gameswithgo 8y ago
on the bright side, that weight penalty can be located very very low. That doesn't help with acceleration but improves braking and cornering performance.
- georgerobinson 8y ago
  This is a common misconception. Mass is still mass, no matter how optimally it is placed in the chassis. A Lotus Exige already has near perfect weight distribution and low center of gravity. Since it is mid-engined it also has 160KG of engine over the rear axle which improves traction. Adding an extra 500KG and putting it lower in the vehicle will not improve braking performance, handling or agility.
m463 8y ago
I've wondered about something similar. The original roadster was based on the elise (similar to exige), and it was heavier. I think the highest performance models now have the largest batteries mostly due to marketing. basically "If you want the performance, pay for more battery than you need". Why not have a 35kwh car, a supercapacitor as a buffer and have it weigh significantly less for better performance? (at the expense of range)
- georgerobinson 8y ago
  It would be a pain. Take that 35KWh car on track, do a 15 minute session and then have to wait another 45-60 minutes for it to charge back up?
  - m463 8y ago
    If you're talking about the track, then swappable batteries? Also, I wonder how a supercapacitor could increase range? I suspect performance and efficiency would both increase without energy bottlenecks between the motors and the batteries.

clouddrover 8y ago

> Sure, a Porsche will have a very high max speed. But even it can't beat an eletric motor in acceleration. Unless, of course, it's a Porsche Taycan: https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-electric/a21239621/porsche-taycan-mission-e-electric/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-electric/a21239... https://www.engadget.com/2019/03/09/porche-taycan-ev-20-000-reservations/ https://www.engadget.com/2019/03/09/porche-taycan-ev-20-000-... https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/products/porsche-taycan-mission-e-drive-unit-battery-charging-electro-mobility-dossier-sportscar-production-christophorus-387-15827.html https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/products/porsche-taycan-miss...

Sohcahtoa82 8y ago

> I think other companies should take notice, and start offering higher performance EVs I'm a Tesla fanboy and I agree with this wholeheartedly. A lot of my fanboyism is based on the fact that Tesla is the ONLY company making performance EVs. The SLOWEST Tesla is still quicker than the fastest Leaf, Bolt, i3, or any other EV besides the i8, which doesn't count because it's a plug-in hybrid with only 15 miles of electric range. I'm greatly considering a Model 3 Performance at the end of this year, but if another company announces an EV that will do 0-60 in under 3.5 seconds (EDIT: for under $75K) before then, I'd be willing to put off buying an EV to give someone else a chance.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
raesene9 8y ago
Jaguar I-Pace has 0-60 in 4.6 seconds, don't think that's slower than all Teslas, is it?
- Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
  Somehow I didn't know of the I-Pace. Between the I-Pace and a Model 3 Performance though, I'd probably go for the Tesla. $10k less, faster, quicker, and longer range.
  - anth_anm 8y ago
    The I-Pace competitor would be the model X. It also starts at double the listed price of the Model 3. I'd rather have an I-pace.
    - Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
      The I-Pace doesn't look that big in pictures, while a Model X is a rather large SUV. I-Pace looks like it's a hair smaller than a Honda CR-V. I'm a bigger fan of smaller cars. Even a Model 3 would feel big to me, since I currently drive a Subaru BRZ (Which is the same car as the Scion FR-S and Toyota GT86).

dublinben 8y ago

The plug-in hybrid Porsche 918 can go 0-60 MPH in 2.2 seconds. I'm pretty sure that demolishes the fastest Tesla models.

Green_man 8y ago
the fastest recorded time iirc of the 918 was done by car and driver, at 2.1 seconds 0-60[i was wrong, it was 2.2 seconds]. tesla model S p100D with "ludicrous mode" have been recorded at ~2.2 seconds (fastest i could find was 2.28 seconds from moter trend). the 918 is the fastest recorded production car, and of course a difference of .1-.18 seconds is a bigger deal at ~2 seconds. car and driver is notorious for "dumping the clutch" on a lot of their tests. with the 918's dct, that likely means an automated launch control, though they still have come under fire for pushing the cars to their limit on their 0-60 tests, possibly damaging components in the process. Launch control can be quite hard on performance cars, some even have a lifetime counter on how many times it can be done. in order to enter ludicrous mode in the tesla, you have to agree that you understand it may damage components of the car as well. both cars have instant torque from electric motors, and AWD. the largest limiting factor keeping us from faster 0-60 times is definitely tire technology, most of these cars run on tires with very similar compounds, usually from Michelin or Pirelli. also, at 0-60 in ~3 seconds, it works out to about 1G, which makes me wonder how much people want to accelerate that quickly, or if they just want to be able to talk about the times on their new car.
URSpider94 8y ago
Tesla Model S with Ludicrous+: 2.28 seconds. Not quite matching it, but the Porsche is not "demolishing" it either. And the Telsa will carry you and four of your friends, and costs 1/5 as much as the Porsche (which isn't even for sale any more). https://electrek.co/2017/02/07/tesla-model-s-p100d-ludicrous-0-60-mph-motor-trend-test/ https://electrek.co/2017/02/07/tesla-model-s-p100d-ludicrous...