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AWS explains their rationale at https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/opensource/keeping-open-source-open-open-distro-for-elasticsearch/ https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/ope

AWS explains their rationale at https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/opensource/keeping-open-source-open-open-distro-for-elasticsearch/ https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/opensource/keeping-open-source-... . Here's a snippet" " Unfortunately, since June 2018, we have witnessed significant intermingling of proprietary code into the code base. While an Apache 2.0 licensed download is still available, there is an extreme lack of clarity as to what customers who care about open source are getting and what they can depend on. For example, neither release notes nor documentation make it clear what is open source and what is proprietary. Enterprise developers may inadvertently apply a fix or enhancement to the proprietary source code. This is hard to track and govern, could lead to breach of license, and could lead to immediate termination of rights (for both proprietary free and paid). Individual code commits also increasingly contain both open source and proprietary code, making it very difficult for developers who want to only work on open source to contribute and participate. In addition, the innovation focus has shifted from furthering the open source distribution to making the proprietary distribution popular. This means that the majority of new Elasticsearch users are now, in fact, running proprietary software. We have discussed our concerns with Elastic, the maintainers of Elasticsearch, including offering to dedicate significant resources to help support a community-driven, non-intermingled version of Elasticsearch. They have made it clear that they intend to continue on their current path. "

alittletooraph 8y ago
The commercial entities associated with the most popular open source technologies are taking measures to protect themselves from Amazon simply taking their software and turning it into a service, whether it's introducing proprietary components or new licensing. Wouldn't be surprised if we saw AWS do something similar for Redis, MongoDB, Kafka, etc.
- koolba 8y ago
  > Wouldn't be surprised if we saw AWS do something similar for Redis, MongoDB, Kafka, etc. They started on their own Redis fork a while ago as ElastiCache has had baked in SSL for over a year and half now. While it's possible they've added it via an stunnel type software stop it, I'd bet for efficiency and simplicity it's baked into their internal fork: https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/security/amazon-elasticache-now-supports-encryption-for-elasticache-for-redis/ https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/security/amazon-elasticache-now...
  - kapilvt 8y ago
    [update - re redis ssl] pretty sure thats what this upstream pull request to redis is https://github.com/antirez/redis/pull/4855 https://github.com/antirez/redis/pull/4855
- topicseed 8y ago
  They already did their MongoDB-compatible NoSQL document database. Not sure what's under the hood but I assume an altered MongoDB engine adapted to their scalable cloud storage architecture. https://aws.amazon.com/documentdb/ https://aws.amazon.com/documentdb/
  - totoglazer 8y ago
    It’s believed to be the same storage engine as their relational data offerings, aurora.
    - christkv 8y ago
      Its an emulation of MongoDB and not a very good one at that.
rushabh 8y ago
When you publish open source, this is what you sign up for. As a publisher of open source software, I think "open core" does a huge disservice to the community as it feels deceptive. While there is no denying that creators needs to be paid, communities thrive on freedom and openness, and dual licensing takes that away. Companies that publish open source must realize that they cannot make money from the "software". Open source gives companies a brand, that they can then leverage to do other services like support, consulting, hosting, merchandise, events, etc. There was a time when service companies wanted to move into products because of high margins and artificial scarcity, but enough open source will ensure that software licensing is not a sustainable model to seek rent, and product companies must also move to services to be able to grow and sustain.
- Lockd 8y ago
  Well said. The issue is most of the core devs don't want to touch "support, consulting, hosting". It's a mental block. They think they can skip around doing only the "cool" stuff.
  - zenlikethat 8y ago
    Many OSS companies have no problem with that. It's more of a problem that users demand features and consulting without rendering payment.
- anth_anm 8y ago
  I think Amazon does a much bigger disservice. > but enough open source will ensure that software licensing is not a sustainable model to seek rent So your solution to this is to just make it so no one can make money doing work. Except Jeff. Jeff gets all the money.
  - hnarn 8y ago
    Looking at it rationally, is furthering open source admirable when it's done by a community activist, and loathsome when it's done by someone who has a business interest in the exact same outcome? Why isn't the end result the most important part of the equation? If a stronger, open sourced Elasticsearch comes out of this, why is that a bad thing because it was backed by Amazon?
Lockd 8y ago
Oh man Amazon is going to bury Elastic (the company) atleast.

alittletooraph 8y ago

The commercial entities associated with the most popular open source technologies are taking measures to protect themselves from Amazon simply taking their software and turning it into a service, whether it's introducing proprietary components or new licensing. Wouldn't be surprised if we saw AWS do something similar for Redis, MongoDB, Kafka, etc.

koolba 8y ago
> Wouldn't be surprised if we saw AWS do something similar for Redis, MongoDB, Kafka, etc. They started on their own Redis fork a while ago as ElastiCache has had baked in SSL for over a year and half now. While it's possible they've added it via an stunnel type software stop it, I'd bet for efficiency and simplicity it's baked into their internal fork: https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/security/amazon-elasticache-now-supports-encryption-for-elasticache-for-redis/ https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/security/amazon-elasticache-now...
- kapilvt 8y ago
  [update - re redis ssl] pretty sure thats what this upstream pull request to redis is https://github.com/antirez/redis/pull/4855 https://github.com/antirez/redis/pull/4855
topicseed 8y ago
They already did their MongoDB-compatible NoSQL document database. Not sure what's under the hood but I assume an altered MongoDB engine adapted to their scalable cloud storage architecture. https://aws.amazon.com/documentdb/ https://aws.amazon.com/documentdb/
- totoglazer 8y ago
  It’s believed to be the same storage engine as their relational data offerings, aurora.
  - christkv 8y ago
    Its an emulation of MongoDB and not a very good one at that.

rushabh 8y ago

When you publish open source, this is what you sign up for. As a publisher of open source software, I think "open core" does a huge disservice to the community as it feels deceptive. While there is no denying that creators needs to be paid, communities thrive on freedom and openness, and dual licensing takes that away. Companies that publish open source must realize that they cannot make money from the "software". Open source gives companies a brand, that they can then leverage to do other services like support, consulting, hosting, merchandise, events, etc. There was a time when service companies wanted to move into products because of high margins and artificial scarcity, but enough open source will ensure that software licensing is not a sustainable model to seek rent, and product companies must also move to services to be able to grow and sustain.

Lockd 8y ago
Well said. The issue is most of the core devs don't want to touch "support, consulting, hosting". It's a mental block. They think they can skip around doing only the "cool" stuff.
- zenlikethat 8y ago
  Many OSS companies have no problem with that. It's more of a problem that users demand features and consulting without rendering payment.
anth_anm 8y ago
I think Amazon does a much bigger disservice. > but enough open source will ensure that software licensing is not a sustainable model to seek rent So your solution to this is to just make it so no one can make money doing work. Except Jeff. Jeff gets all the money.
- hnarn 8y ago
  Looking at it rationally, is furthering open source admirable when it's done by a community activist, and loathsome when it's done by someone who has a business interest in the exact same outcome? Why isn't the end result the most important part of the equation? If a stronger, open sourced Elasticsearch comes out of this, why is that a bad thing because it was backed by Amazon?

Lockd 8y ago

Oh man Amazon is going to bury Elastic (the company) atleast.