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If there was a massive pool of unemployed programmers sitting around, this could be a pretty good idea. Unfortunately I think you have a rather oddly skewed pi

by SeanOC 16y ago

If there was a massive pool of unemployed programmers sitting around, this could be a pretty good idea. Unfortunately I think you have a rather oddly skewed picture of the current state of the job market. Right now there is a huge talent crush for programmers. If somebody has the skill and ambition to be a useful team member in this kind of setup, they are unemployed because they choose to be at this point. You're going to have a very difficult time attracting anything other than leeches and "business guys" looking for free/cheap labor. Think about this: from the perspective of a recently unemployed programmer, why do I want to join your project instead of signing on with one of the dozens of startups currently hiring or just starting something on my own? All of that being said everything goes through cycles and there probably will come a time in the not too distant future where something like this could do very well. If you can overcome the adoption challenges of today, you'd have something very powerful when the next tech recession comes.

andrewstuart 16y ago
>>>"Unfortunately I think you have a rather oddly skewed picture of the current state of the job market. " I can say for sure that there are very large numbers of unemployed programmers because my day job is as a recruiter - I spend all day receiving resumes from programmers and talking to them about whether or not they are currently employed. Even in my own city there are large numbers of programmers looking for work. Expand that around the world and there's many many more. Actually the reason I have been thinking about this idea is because I'm acutely aware and reminded daily of how much programming talent is not active due to unemployment. Many people struggle to get work even though they might be willing and highly talented, for a wide variety of reasons. Consider for example if you are Delphi programmer who wants to make the shift into programming with some more recent technology. It is very hard for such people to get a job because employers are reluctant to take the chance. The Delphi programmer may in fact be incredibly talented and may easily be able to switch technologies, but getting an employer to give them that chance might take 12 months. There are lots of other valid reasons why there are many potentially talented programmers who can't find a job.
- nostrademons 16y ago
  Why are these programmers not hired? The answer to that question matters a lot for the viability of this idea. And if the Delphi programmer is in fact incredibly talented and able to switch technologies - why hasn't he done so? Why is he still marketing himself as a Delphi programmer if he can teach himself JavaScript, do a couple webpages, and market himself as a JavaScript programmer?
  - andrewstuart 16y ago
    A good way to develop experience in any new technology would be to actually do some coding work with it.
    - nostrademons 16y ago
      Right, I completely agree. The point I'm getting at is that you already have the option to actually do some coding work with your new technology anyway, either through a startup or an open-source project. And the people who do that very often get hired, and leave the pool of the unemployed. So what value-add is there for an organized program of the sort that you're proposing?
andrewstuart 16y ago
>>>"Think about this: from the perspective of a recently unemployed programmer, why do I want to join your project instead of signing on with one of the dozens of startups currently hiring or just starting something on my own?" Because a project like this would allow a developer to join a team and starting coding. They would not have to go through a recruiter/employer to get the gig. If you are willing to code, then you get to write code. Recruiters/employers and salary are the biggest barriers to working on a commercial software project.
- nostrademons 16y ago
  It's trivially easy to quit your job and start coding for yourself. I've done it myself. This whole website is pretty much dedicated to that. The hard part is getting people to pay you money for it, which is what defines "commercial software project". And in my experience, it's harder to get customers to pay you money than employers. Why would a team of previously unemployed be able to sell their services or their code to customers when they can't sell it to employers? And if they do manage to sell it to customers - what distinguishes them from a startup?

by SeanOC 16y ago

andrewstuart 16y ago

>>>"Unfortunately I think you have a rather oddly skewed picture of the current state of the job market. " I can say for sure that there are very large numbers of unemployed programmers because my day job is as a recruiter - I spend all day receiving resumes from programmers and talking to them about whether or not they are currently employed. Even in my own city there are large numbers of programmers looking for work. Expand that around the world and there's many many more. Actually the reason I have been thinking about this idea is because I'm acutely aware and reminded daily of how much programming talent is not active due to unemployment. Many people struggle to get work even though they might be willing and highly talented, for a wide variety of reasons. Consider for example if you are Delphi programmer who wants to make the shift into programming with some more recent technology. It is very hard for such people to get a job because employers are reluctant to take the chance. The Delphi programmer may in fact be incredibly talented and may easily be able to switch technologies, but getting an employer to give them that chance might take 12 months. There are lots of other valid reasons why there are many potentially talented programmers who can't find a job.

nostrademons 16y ago
Why are these programmers not hired? The answer to that question matters a lot for the viability of this idea. And if the Delphi programmer is in fact incredibly talented and able to switch technologies - why hasn't he done so? Why is he still marketing himself as a Delphi programmer if he can teach himself JavaScript, do a couple webpages, and market himself as a JavaScript programmer?
- andrewstuart 16y ago
  A good way to develop experience in any new technology would be to actually do some coding work with it.
  - nostrademons 16y ago
    Right, I completely agree. The point I'm getting at is that you already have the option to actually do some coding work with your new technology anyway, either through a startup or an open-source project. And the people who do that very often get hired, and leave the pool of the unemployed. So what value-add is there for an organized program of the sort that you're proposing?

andrewstuart 16y ago

>>>"Think about this: from the perspective of a recently unemployed programmer, why do I want to join your project instead of signing on with one of the dozens of startups currently hiring or just starting something on my own?" Because a project like this would allow a developer to join a team and starting coding. They would not have to go through a recruiter/employer to get the gig. If you are willing to code, then you get to write code. Recruiters/employers and salary are the biggest barriers to working on a commercial software project.

nostrademons 16y ago
It's trivially easy to quit your job and start coding for yourself. I've done it myself. This whole website is pretty much dedicated to that. The hard part is getting people to pay you money for it, which is what defines "commercial software project". And in my experience, it's harder to get customers to pay you money than employers. Why would a team of previously unemployed be able to sell their services or their code to customers when they can't sell it to employers? And if they do manage to sell it to customers - what distinguishes them from a startup?