5 ms·

Isn't it much more likely the marked decline in testosterone is to blame? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17062768 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1706

Isn't it much more likely the marked decline in testosterone is to blame? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17062768 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17062768 Relevant Image: https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1600/1*n6SXZ6_p4vX9sprDI1UdUQ.jpeg https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1600/1*n6SXZ6_p4vX9sprDI... A man in the 1980s had a testosterone level of around 525, that level is now getting into the 400s, this is a massive change in the hormone that is responsible for sex drive, etc.

jasonbarrah 8y ago
My money is still on cell phones radiation from the front pocket.
- crankylinuxuser 8y ago
  Not this again. I actually watched Larry King on CNN when he had the person with the brain tumor say 'My cell phone gave me this tumor'... And lo and behold the meme is now "Cellphones cause X" If, however you want a good hormone disruptor candidate, look no further than BPA and other estrogen-like compounds. With the amount of plastic we have in our biosphere, along with 'interesting' resultants from decomp, my money'd be on hormone disruption. I have to wonder if any uni is actively investigating this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/xenoestrogen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/xenoestrogen is very much a thing.
  - themagician 8y ago
    It’s porn? No, it’s low testosterone. No, it’s cell phones. No, it’s plastic. We are so adamant about finding the “one true cause” of any given thing that we don’t stop to consider that it doesn’t matter what it actually is. If we pretend it’s all of them, what’s the worst outcome? We watch less porn, eat better food, spend less time with our phone and use less plastic? What a terrible scenario that would be. We might do all these good things for no good reason! It’s the same problem we have with climate change. Always looking for the scapegoat instead of recognizing that the problem can be alleviated without finding the one true cause, assuming there even is one.
    - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
      So, you're a science denier? Or do you have specific refutations of the linked GP paper to the NIH? I also linked to a valid area, and asked if there were human studies in synthetic estrogens and plastic byproducts. You know... Science.
      - themagician 8y ago
        Did you respond to the wrong comment?
    - strken 8y ago
      Spending less time carrying a device that can call an ambulance in minutes would have serious consequences.
      - themagician 8y ago
        No it wouldn't. You don't need to carry a phone with you everywhere you go all the time and keep it in your pocket. Hell, a lot of phones don't even fit in pockets anymore. You can keep it on your desk or in your bag. You can even do something crazy like leave it at home or in your car and go to the beach. You probably won't die. And because you live in a world with other people in it, it's possible that if you do set your phone down for a little bit and you have a medical emergency someone else could call for you.
    - gizmo686 8y ago
      The problem is, how do you know those are good things? Clearly all of those things have some benifits, else we wouldn't be doing them in the first place. To stop doing them because they might be harmful would make the world a worst place if they are not actually harmful. And if we actually want to solve a problem, understanding its cause is generally important. For instance imagine solving global warming without establish the cause is greanhouse gasses. Sure, we might make the world "better" by starting a campaighn to cure all the gay people, but that won't actually help with global warming, and would actually make the world worst (the first statement is fact, the second is a value judgement)
- partiallypro 8y ago
  I'm betting it's more from change of diet and physical activity. Increased exercise or just walking will increase your testosterone levels (in men.)
  - jug 8y ago
    I can almost immediately feel the effects myself from just a week’s exercise and the major benefits in general well being and lust. No scientific evidence of course, but I think research should begin looking there...
  - wallace_f 8y ago
    There is so much shit (literally) in our water and food supply. But also birth control, opioids, microplastics, you-name-it. Seattle mussels test positive for opioids(1). Chemicals leech from plastics. America has mass-scale addiction to prescription drugs. Pollution is everywhere the world. Neurotoxins are household gardening or anti-pest remedies. Livestock have also shifted from grazing to eating soy- or corn-based products. Fish are more-likely to be farmed. Nobody knows what the true long-term consequences of this are. I think people would also be surprised to see what happens on farms. Seeing chickens and pigs eat mice and rats while knowing how much garbage and neurotoxins are laid out for those pests--they end up inside humans. 1-https://www.livescience.com/62667-puget-sound-mussels-opioids.html https://www.livescience.com/62667-puget-sound-mussels-opioid...
    - adrianN 8y ago
      Things testing positive for opioids is more of an artifact of how sensitive these tests are. You would also test positive after eating a poppy bagel.
- Numberwang 8y ago
  Bad diet is much more likely the culprit.
- Dirlewanger 8y ago
  Yup. I don't have the study unfortunately, but it was in the past couple years that a university did a study on males who kept their phone in the pockets. They found they had a lower sperm count than those that didn't keep their phone there.
countbackwards 8y ago
In my personal experience, no. My testosterone level is currently lower than even most women, and I can still get an erection.
- chrismeller 8y ago
  I don’t think that was really his point? There are always outliers, but in general the trend is still true...
ravenstine 8y ago
We've also been weeding out high testosterone men to some extent. For the last century, we've been putting a large number of high testosterone men in prison.
- pliftkl 8y ago
  Being in prison for part of your life doesn't rule out passing your genes off to your kids. Your post made me do a bit of googling, and it looks like about half of the men in prison have kids before they go in. Some will certainly have kids after they are out.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > Being in prison for part of your life doesn't rule out passing your genes off to your kids. It plausibly could have a negative impact and the probability that you have children that themselves have children; I suspect that children of imprisoned fathers are more likely than the population average to die before having children themselves.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
drugme 8y ago
But what might be causing the decline in T? That's what the article is trying to address. My bet, BTW, is with "multiple factors".
- close04 8y ago
  Sure, but if one of them is more easily controllable maybe more research in the direction would provide some low hanging fruits.
- daxorid 8y ago
  Not to go all MRA here, but nobody cares. Nobody's going to bother with the research and meta-analyses required to get to the bottom of the matter. Our health concerns are of no concern to this society. And while many states are legalizing marijuana, it's still a life-ending felony in all 50 to get caught with a vial of Testosterone Enanthante in one's gym bag.
  - drugme 8y ago
    Even if you have a valid prescription, e.g. for ART / TRT? I'm not going to raise the MR issue, but when you say "nobody cares" it seems you're definitely hyperbolizing a bit.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > But what might be causing the decline in T? The things that T contributes to becoming less important to survival, social status, and economic status probably are all factors. There's a number or candidate physical environmental factors, too, IIRC.

jasonbarrah 8y ago

My money is still on cell phones radiation from the front pocket.

crankylinuxuser 8y ago
Not this again. I actually watched Larry King on CNN when he had the person with the brain tumor say 'My cell phone gave me this tumor'... And lo and behold the meme is now "Cellphones cause X" If, however you want a good hormone disruptor candidate, look no further than BPA and other estrogen-like compounds. With the amount of plastic we have in our biosphere, along with 'interesting' resultants from decomp, my money'd be on hormone disruption. I have to wonder if any uni is actively investigating this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/xenoestrogen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/xenoestrogen is very much a thing.
- themagician 8y ago
  It’s porn? No, it’s low testosterone. No, it’s cell phones. No, it’s plastic. We are so adamant about finding the “one true cause” of any given thing that we don’t stop to consider that it doesn’t matter what it actually is. If we pretend it’s all of them, what’s the worst outcome? We watch less porn, eat better food, spend less time with our phone and use less plastic? What a terrible scenario that would be. We might do all these good things for no good reason! It’s the same problem we have with climate change. Always looking for the scapegoat instead of recognizing that the problem can be alleviated without finding the one true cause, assuming there even is one.
  - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
    So, you're a science denier? Or do you have specific refutations of the linked GP paper to the NIH? I also linked to a valid area, and asked if there were human studies in synthetic estrogens and plastic byproducts. You know... Science.
    - themagician 8y ago
      Did you respond to the wrong comment?
  - strken 8y ago
    Spending less time carrying a device that can call an ambulance in minutes would have serious consequences.
    - themagician 8y ago
      No it wouldn't. You don't need to carry a phone with you everywhere you go all the time and keep it in your pocket. Hell, a lot of phones don't even fit in pockets anymore. You can keep it on your desk or in your bag. You can even do something crazy like leave it at home or in your car and go to the beach. You probably won't die. And because you live in a world with other people in it, it's possible that if you do set your phone down for a little bit and you have a medical emergency someone else could call for you.
  - gizmo686 8y ago
    The problem is, how do you know those are good things? Clearly all of those things have some benifits, else we wouldn't be doing them in the first place. To stop doing them because they might be harmful would make the world a worst place if they are not actually harmful. And if we actually want to solve a problem, understanding its cause is generally important. For instance imagine solving global warming without establish the cause is greanhouse gasses. Sure, we might make the world "better" by starting a campaighn to cure all the gay people, but that won't actually help with global warming, and would actually make the world worst (the first statement is fact, the second is a value judgement)
partiallypro 8y ago
I'm betting it's more from change of diet and physical activity. Increased exercise or just walking will increase your testosterone levels (in men.)
- jug 8y ago
  I can almost immediately feel the effects myself from just a week’s exercise and the major benefits in general well being and lust. No scientific evidence of course, but I think research should begin looking there...
- wallace_f 8y ago
  There is so much shit (literally) in our water and food supply. But also birth control, opioids, microplastics, you-name-it. Seattle mussels test positive for opioids(1). Chemicals leech from plastics. America has mass-scale addiction to prescription drugs. Pollution is everywhere the world. Neurotoxins are household gardening or anti-pest remedies. Livestock have also shifted from grazing to eating soy- or corn-based products. Fish are more-likely to be farmed. Nobody knows what the true long-term consequences of this are. I think people would also be surprised to see what happens on farms. Seeing chickens and pigs eat mice and rats while knowing how much garbage and neurotoxins are laid out for those pests--they end up inside humans. 1-https://www.livescience.com/62667-puget-sound-mussels-opioids.html https://www.livescience.com/62667-puget-sound-mussels-opioid...
  - adrianN 8y ago
    Things testing positive for opioids is more of an artifact of how sensitive these tests are. You would also test positive after eating a poppy bagel.
Numberwang 8y ago
Bad diet is much more likely the culprit.
Dirlewanger 8y ago
Yup. I don't have the study unfortunately, but it was in the past couple years that a university did a study on males who kept their phone in the pockets. They found they had a lower sperm count than those that didn't keep their phone there.

countbackwards 8y ago

In my personal experience, no. My testosterone level is currently lower than even most women, and I can still get an erection.

chrismeller 8y ago
I don’t think that was really his point? There are always outliers, but in general the trend is still true...

ravenstine 8y ago

We've also been weeding out high testosterone men to some extent. For the last century, we've been putting a large number of high testosterone men in prison.

pliftkl 8y ago
Being in prison for part of your life doesn't rule out passing your genes off to your kids. Your post made me do a bit of googling, and it looks like about half of the men in prison have kids before they go in. Some will certainly have kids after they are out.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > Being in prison for part of your life doesn't rule out passing your genes off to your kids. It plausibly could have a negative impact and the probability that you have children that themselves have children; I suspect that children of imprisoned fathers are more likely than the population average to die before having children themselves.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

drugme 8y ago

But what might be causing the decline in T? That's what the article is trying to address. My bet, BTW, is with "multiple factors".

close04 8y ago
Sure, but if one of them is more easily controllable maybe more research in the direction would provide some low hanging fruits.
daxorid 8y ago
Not to go all MRA here, but nobody cares. Nobody's going to bother with the research and meta-analyses required to get to the bottom of the matter. Our health concerns are of no concern to this society. And while many states are legalizing marijuana, it's still a life-ending felony in all 50 to get caught with a vial of Testosterone Enanthante in one's gym bag.
- drugme 8y ago
  Even if you have a valid prescription, e.g. for ART / TRT? I'm not going to raise the MR issue, but when you say "nobody cares" it seems you're definitely hyperbolizing a bit.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> But what might be causing the decline in T? The things that T contributes to becoming less important to survival, social status, and economic status probably are all factors. There's a number or candidate physical environmental factors, too, IIRC.