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More reasons for me to stop using Amazon but.... this is pretty interesting for me and I am not sure how to feel about it. On one hand I feel like they exploit

by avgDev 8y ago

More reasons for me to stop using Amazon but.... this is pretty interesting for me and I am not sure how to feel about it. On one hand I feel like they exploit the least educated and relatively poor people. On the other hand I think the only reason they are getting bad press is because they are a large corp. I have worked at many small businesses over the years and did physical work. I was treated like garbage by most bosses, didn't have any insurance at all and worked 16 hour days when needed. No paid time off, 0 benefits, some jobs paid cash. Nobody would care if complained because it is a small business and nobody would read an article about it. This is happening to many many people in the US. If they didn't push to get out of those jobs they may be stuck there for life. Now, I am an SE, get good benefits, less stress, more respect, everyone is more lenient and polite. Yet, deep down I still have PTSD of walking on eggshells because of shit employers.

tivert 8y ago
> On the other hand I think the only reason they are getting bad press is because they are a large corp. I think that's true, but understandable. Amazon is widely known and extremely successful, so stories about it will attract more interest, and its scope justifies the expenditure of significant resources. Also, pervasive problems at large company are harder to dismiss as being merely the result of "one bad boss" or something like that. Hopefully negative coverage of large companies like Amazon will lead to work protection reforms that can also be used to help small business employees.
tomnipotent 8y ago
> More reasons for me to stop using Amazon but 189 calls over 5 years from 600,000+ employees (and many more that have come & gone) and the article didn't even bother to compare that against the general population. Bad reporting and conclusions. There's no news here.
- sykic 8y ago
  You are right that there isn’t much of a story with regards to suicide at Amazon warehouses but there is a story with regard to the general working conditions at its warehouses. I guess mentioning suicide is good business from an entertainment/news aspect but this article is not helpful in terms of helping bring to attention the bad working conditions at Amazon’s warehouses.
  - tracker1 8y ago
    What's the rate of suicide calls to 911 in the general population? If it's around 0.1%, I wouldn't be surprised... Most people hit that point at least once in their lifetime.
- nikofeyn 8y ago
  in what world is this no news? these aren't just statistics on employees who happen to work at amazon. these 911 calls were reported to be placed while at work. what other places of work is it common for employees, while working, to experience such emotional distress that they need to call external emergency services?
  - tomnipotent 8y ago
    > in what world is this no news? The real world, where people call 911 all the time. This isn't unique to Amazon, and I'm willing to wager that Costo & Walmart have similar statistics.
behringer 8y ago
None of those bosses that treated you like shit were the richest man in the world.
umanwizard 8y ago
How are they exploiting anyone? Are they forcing people to work there against their will?
- avgDev 8y ago
  In my opinion, you can exploit people even if they willfully do something for you. For example, in some poor nations people do work that is very harmful, they do it to survive. People put up with amazons policies because they need the job to survive. What if Amazon kills all the local business and becomes the only employer of people from few villages? They can exploit and use the same logic that you describe.
- rdiddly 8y ago
  The definition of 'exploit' has very little to do with force. If someone drops $5 and doesn't notice, and I keep it, I exploited their inattention. If there's a forest, and I have a chainsaw/crane/truck, and no one cares if I chop it down, I can exploit their indifference and exploit that resource. If you click on a phishing link, the hacker exploits your carelessness. If the developers of your OS left a security hole, hackers can exploit that (and when they do, it's called an exploit). If you love puppies, the ASPCA can exploit that to get donations. And if you have only a high school education and live in an area with plenty such people, I can exploit that by building my warehouse there, and you'll be eager to work there for minimum wage, and I can exploit that. No guns were drawn in any of these examples.
  - umanwizard 8y ago
    In most of your examples except the Amazon one (and, maybe, the ASPCA one), the person being "exploited" is worse off afterwards. You are equivocating on two subtly different definitions of exploit: the bad one where you abuse someone (the hacker exploits your carelessness... to hurt you), and the neutral one (exploiting a resource). In your Amazon warehouse example, people in the area are better off than they would have been without the warehouse.
    - rdiddly 8y ago

by avgDev 8y ago

tivert 8y ago

> On the other hand I think the only reason they are getting bad press is because they are a large corp. I think that's true, but understandable. Amazon is widely known and extremely successful, so stories about it will attract more interest, and its scope justifies the expenditure of significant resources. Also, pervasive problems at large company are harder to dismiss as being merely the result of "one bad boss" or something like that. Hopefully negative coverage of large companies like Amazon will lead to work protection reforms that can also be used to help small business employees.

tomnipotent 8y ago

> More reasons for me to stop using Amazon but 189 calls over 5 years from 600,000+ employees (and many more that have come & gone) and the article didn't even bother to compare that against the general population. Bad reporting and conclusions. There's no news here.

sykic 8y ago
You are right that there isn’t much of a story with regards to suicide at Amazon warehouses but there is a story with regard to the general working conditions at its warehouses. I guess mentioning suicide is good business from an entertainment/news aspect but this article is not helpful in terms of helping bring to attention the bad working conditions at Amazon’s warehouses.
- tracker1 8y ago
  What's the rate of suicide calls to 911 in the general population? If it's around 0.1%, I wouldn't be surprised... Most people hit that point at least once in their lifetime.
nikofeyn 8y ago
in what world is this no news? these aren't just statistics on employees who happen to work at amazon. these 911 calls were reported to be placed while at work. what other places of work is it common for employees, while working, to experience such emotional distress that they need to call external emergency services?
- tomnipotent 8y ago
  > in what world is this no news? The real world, where people call 911 all the time. This isn't unique to Amazon, and I'm willing to wager that Costo & Walmart have similar statistics.

behringer 8y ago

None of those bosses that treated you like shit were the richest man in the world.

umanwizard 8y ago

How are they exploiting anyone? Are they forcing people to work there against their will?

avgDev 8y ago
In my opinion, you can exploit people even if they willfully do something for you. For example, in some poor nations people do work that is very harmful, they do it to survive. People put up with amazons policies because they need the job to survive. What if Amazon kills all the local business and becomes the only employer of people from few villages? They can exploit and use the same logic that you describe.
rdiddly 8y ago
The definition of 'exploit' has very little to do with force. If someone drops $5 and doesn't notice, and I keep it, I exploited their inattention. If there's a forest, and I have a chainsaw/crane/truck, and no one cares if I chop it down, I can exploit their indifference and exploit that resource. If you click on a phishing link, the hacker exploits your carelessness. If the developers of your OS left a security hole, hackers can exploit that (and when they do, it's called an exploit). If you love puppies, the ASPCA can exploit that to get donations. And if you have only a high school education and live in an area with plenty such people, I can exploit that by building my warehouse there, and you'll be eager to work there for minimum wage, and I can exploit that. No guns were drawn in any of these examples.
- umanwizard 8y ago
  In most of your examples except the Amazon one (and, maybe, the ASPCA one), the person being "exploited" is worse off afterwards. You are equivocating on two subtly different definitions of exploit: the bad one where you abuse someone (the hacker exploits your carelessness... to hurt you), and the neutral one (exploiting a resource). In your Amazon warehouse example, people in the area are better off than they would have been without the warehouse.
  - rdiddly 8y ago