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Reminds me of part of that poem by Kipling... "If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster And treat those two impostors just the same; If you can bear
by mfoy_ 8y ago
Reminds me of part of that poem by Kipling...
"If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:"
(I highly recommend reading the whole thing. Not that long.)
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46473/if--- https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46473/if---
- sesteel 8y agoThank you for sharing.
- balabaster 8y ago...and which is more, you'll be a man, my son. This poem was hung on my bedroom wall for my whole childhood. Great poem. It taught me everything about finding the patience to be understanding of other people.
- richardhod 8y agoThis, of course, is the worst part of the poem, belying its Imperial age genesis, where men were men, and women were ignored. But, if you can ignore the wince-inducing ending, it's a very worthy poem and comes top of British polls of favourite poems almost every time.
- balabaster 8y ago> "of course"? You say this as if a foregone conclusion, a statement of fact. There's zero wrong with considering what it means to be a man. Just because I don't address what it means to be a woman doesn't make me sexist. It's not toxic to consider who you are and what values you hold dear. Perhaps the wince that's induced in you is projection on your part? It doesn't make me wince. Nor do I apologize for it. I don't look at this poem as sexist. It addresses who I want to be as a man, no more, no less. It has no bearing on my thoughts of women. I'm not a woman, therefore my thoughts and feelings about what women should be are largely irrelevant... at least as irrelevant as to Rudyard Kipling who didn't address this topic at all in the poem.
- andromedavision 8y agoThis is what I have a problem with; one cannot even share a simple poem without it degenerating into a virtue signalling debate. Now you're forced to defend something that you had nothing to do with. Yuck.
- balabaster 8y agoUnfortunately, that's the world we live in at this moment where too many people need to find validation by belonging to some virtue group or another because they care what other people think. In hindsight, I'm not sure why I even cared enough to defend my position. Perhaps I'm not so different as I'd like to hope.
- andromedavision 8y agoNo, you're alright.
- Baeocystin 8y agoLetting people know your honest thoughts in a straightforward manner is important. I know plenty of folks who hold opinions along the same line as the person you replied to. They are usually various degrees of shocked when I give them civil yet straightforward pushback, and more often then one may think, when done in person, it leads to real discussion, and ideas outside of normal worldview enter both our minds. It is a good thing.
- andromedavision 8y agoThat Kipling poem is flawless. Injecting virtue signalling dilutes its beauty. They don't even go together. This is personal for me because it is the most profound thing I've ever read. For someone to come and refer to it as sexist is demeaning. Savor it and quit being so wound up is all I'm saying. There's a place for everything and this was ill-placed.
- 8y ago
- Baeocystin 8y agoWhat a delight. I'd never read that before. Thank you for posting it!