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I knew there would be some relation with drugs in the text. People who think psychedelic drugs (even Cannabis) are just about 'having fun' or 'getting high' ar

by fb03 8y ago

I knew there would be some relation with drugs in the text. People who think psychedelic drugs (even Cannabis) are just about 'having fun' or 'getting high' are skipping past the biggest ability these compounds have: to make you change some already hardcoded aspects of your life. Someone who isn't me started working out and eating properly after having an epiphany on cannabis which prompted him to openly evaluate his relationship with food. After seeing truly how he ate, it disgusted him. This person is now 50kg slimmer and away from obesity BMI.

thraway-burnout 8y ago
Please congratulate that person on my behalf. Even though it may be the result of an epiphany, self-restraint is still hard to achieve and a noble goal in itself :-)
- short_sells_poo 8y ago
  I'd like to prefix this as _anecdotal_ as it is only some speculation I've done on the matter, but here is my take on it: The brain is in the end a neural network, and like all such devices, can get stuck in various local minima that are difficult to get out of. An old habit that has been reinforced through many years can take a considerable "shock" to dislodge. All the little cognitive and behavioral biases that one accumulates through their life get in the way in very subtle forms that are entirely sub-conscious. What psychedelics like LSD, psilocybin and others can do, is remove or downregulate these internal filters for some time. To give an example: the visual cortex normally applies a filtering mechanism to what the eyes see and correct problems. It acts as a common-sense filter to remove improbable or impossible information and augment, perhaps even add some extra detail to save the conscious part from being swamped with ridiculous data. Mostly it just lets the sensory input through with little synthetic stuff. This means that the visual cortex has to have some sort of model of reality that it builds over time (with feedback from the consciousness). This filtering mechanism is one way mostly, the visual cortex modulates the input and adds information here and there, and then reinforces the internal model with feedback form the consciousness. Now, under psychedelics, one gets all the output that the visual cortex can generate together with the actual real data from the eyes. The previously subtle filter applies the full transformation described by the internal model to the sensory data. This results in wacky outlandish shapes and impossible landscapes as reality is modified fully with all the information that the visual cortex has accumulated. Quite like the bizarre images generated by artificial CNNs when ran backwards! So to arrive at my point, I posit that psychedelics can (not guaranteed of course), remove the long standing subconscious filters and biases that one has built over their life and offer the raw perspective on things. They remove all the useful illusions that the brain pulls over our eyes to get through our days. A thing that one tends to lose during a "trip" is control over the thought process, some call it ego death, a profound sensation of being able to observe one's thoughts from outside - as if unburdened by one's own insecurities and from an objective view. It isn't unpleasant at all, if anything it is liberating. It is always difficult to face one's own shortcomings, because of the importance that we place on the ego. Once that burden is removed, it becomes an experience of resignation and healing. I want to avoid ascribing religious or transcendental characteristics to the process, far from it. It's a mere result of some very pleasant time spent being free from the tyranny of the ego and the subsequent introspection.
  - fb03 8y ago
    like i said, someone who isn't me was able finally watch how he ate. Swim grabbed a big plate, sat in front of a mirror, and ate it all! It was definitely not a good experience for swim, but as you said, it was a mind opening one, because swim was able to watch himself as a third party, free from all the defense mechanisms that did not let him see what he saw before and for all those years. After that, swim knew for sure he had a problem and as swim is a perfectionist, he wanted to solve or at least work that problem. But before the experience, swim did not see the issue as a problem, but merely "who he was". Swim realizes now that no one ever "is" something, they just "are being (something) right now". and if you gain that notion, you realize that everything in yourself that you want to change can be changed with hard work and enough time. NINJA EDIT: and to close the thought of the last paragraph: No one needed drugs to read that last paragraph, it is a notion simple enough to grasp. But, sometimes your actions and thought patterns are so grooved into your head that you need something to untangle/undo/rewire some stuff up, even temporarily, letting you see past your already defined outputs.
    - rabidrat 8y ago
      SWIY is 100% correct about "is"-ness vs "being"-ness. It may be simple but it is incredibly profound. And yet, some things aren't actually changeable. Case in point, sexual orientation. Even with total personal commitment, it does not seem to be malleable. Not that it has never changed or evolved for anyone, but that hard work and time are not sufficient to create that change intentionally.
    - __blockcipher__ 8y ago
      Hey friend. No need for the SWIM. It gives you no plausible legal deniability. That's all I have to say. Glad you managed to perceive your problem (and therefore fix it). I too have found psychedelics helped me address issues in my life that I wasn't even aware of. edit: >Swim realizes now that no one ever "is" something, they just "are being (something) right now". and if you gain that notion, you realize that everything in yourself that you want to change can be changed with hard work and enough time. I had that exact same realization on shrooms. What a succinct and beautiful way to put it.
sleepysysadmin 8y ago
The person quit Carbs?
- fb03 8y ago
  Someone who isn't me maybe realized he was pigging out on food and started eating consciously. The biggest change Someone Who Isn't Me told was being able to, by sheer observation and mindfulness, wait the "hunger pangs" out and finally differentiate between being hungry and wanting to eat, two completely different concepts which get completely mixed up and indistinguishable from each other as people progress abusing food. Overeating and anxiety are closely tied together and to be able to break or weaken that link is something truly life-changing.
  - icebraining 8y ago
    Is he any more content with his life, though?
    - fb03 8y ago
      That is a curious question. What do you think? Swim is definitely better now. Better health, energy levels, improved sleep. Swim can now wear normal clothes and not be so self conscious about his body because he was usually the biggest person in the room :-) Swim still eats junk food once a week so his old self still gets to indulge from time to time and not be depressed from eating healthy all day long. In fact, swim eats everything, the only thing he did is control his anxiety when putting food on his plate. Swim used to get huge anxiety relief from eating (just like a lot of people out there that deny this fact). Swim had to change that behavior to walks, meditation, making music, gaming etc. Swim also reports that his anxiety spiked when he started cutting down gorging on food. But that is now under control and swim is healthy and kicking!
onemoresoop 8y ago
Couldn't agree more, these types of , I would not even call them drugs, make for really good mental reshapers if done properly and not abused.
dcoo 8y ago
Someone who isn't me had a similar experience. The psychedelics just acted as a catalyst to act on things they already knew needed to change.
panchicore3 8y ago
Yes I think they can be used to heal with the --force args, a friend of mine broke an addiction to porn&fapping by having a realization while high on cannabis, he wasn't a regular user, read about set-and-setting looking to seat and stare himself in the mirror, the realization that was like watching his life passing in one second, helped to make him comprehend how much energy he was wasting, energy that might be used to be a better husband and father. No more porn have been seen since years... the fap is made... but by the hands of his wife.
GuB-42 8y ago
Psychedelics are unpredictable. They can: - Change your life for the better, like with your "friend". - Fuck you up completely. It is rare and usually tied to preexisting conditions, but it happens. - Give you a good, enjoyable, and rather inconsequential trip. I'd say it is by far the most common outcome, especially on low doses. - Give you a horrible experience. It usually stops you from wanting to do any more psychedelics. - Something else. The problem, and the reason why they are not currently used in mainstream (scientific) medicine is that you don't know in advance which scenario will apply to you. Things like set and setting help but there is no sure fire technique.

by fb03 8y ago

thraway-burnout 8y ago

Please congratulate that person on my behalf. Even though it may be the result of an epiphany, self-restraint is still hard to achieve and a noble goal in itself :-)

short_sells_poo 8y ago
I'd like to prefix this as _anecdotal_ as it is only some speculation I've done on the matter, but here is my take on it: The brain is in the end a neural network, and like all such devices, can get stuck in various local minima that are difficult to get out of. An old habit that has been reinforced through many years can take a considerable "shock" to dislodge. All the little cognitive and behavioral biases that one accumulates through their life get in the way in very subtle forms that are entirely sub-conscious. What psychedelics like LSD, psilocybin and others can do, is remove or downregulate these internal filters for some time. To give an example: the visual cortex normally applies a filtering mechanism to what the eyes see and correct problems. It acts as a common-sense filter to remove improbable or impossible information and augment, perhaps even add some extra detail to save the conscious part from being swamped with ridiculous data. Mostly it just lets the sensory input through with little synthetic stuff. This means that the visual cortex has to have some sort of model of reality that it builds over time (with feedback from the consciousness). This filtering mechanism is one way mostly, the visual cortex modulates the input and adds information here and there, and then reinforces the internal model with feedback form the consciousness. Now, under psychedelics, one gets all the output that the visual cortex can generate together with the actual real data from the eyes. The previously subtle filter applies the full transformation described by the internal model to the sensory data. This results in wacky outlandish shapes and impossible landscapes as reality is modified fully with all the information that the visual cortex has accumulated. Quite like the bizarre images generated by artificial CNNs when ran backwards! So to arrive at my point, I posit that psychedelics can (not guaranteed of course), remove the long standing subconscious filters and biases that one has built over their life and offer the raw perspective on things. They remove all the useful illusions that the brain pulls over our eyes to get through our days. A thing that one tends to lose during a "trip" is control over the thought process, some call it ego death, a profound sensation of being able to observe one's thoughts from outside - as if unburdened by one's own insecurities and from an objective view. It isn't unpleasant at all, if anything it is liberating. It is always difficult to face one's own shortcomings, because of the importance that we place on the ego. Once that burden is removed, it becomes an experience of resignation and healing. I want to avoid ascribing religious or transcendental characteristics to the process, far from it. It's a mere result of some very pleasant time spent being free from the tyranny of the ego and the subsequent introspection.
- fb03 8y ago
  like i said, someone who isn't me was able finally watch how he ate. Swim grabbed a big plate, sat in front of a mirror, and ate it all! It was definitely not a good experience for swim, but as you said, it was a mind opening one, because swim was able to watch himself as a third party, free from all the defense mechanisms that did not let him see what he saw before and for all those years. After that, swim knew for sure he had a problem and as swim is a perfectionist, he wanted to solve or at least work that problem. But before the experience, swim did not see the issue as a problem, but merely "who he was". Swim realizes now that no one ever "is" something, they just "are being (something) right now". and if you gain that notion, you realize that everything in yourself that you want to change can be changed with hard work and enough time. NINJA EDIT: and to close the thought of the last paragraph: No one needed drugs to read that last paragraph, it is a notion simple enough to grasp. But, sometimes your actions and thought patterns are so grooved into your head that you need something to untangle/undo/rewire some stuff up, even temporarily, letting you see past your already defined outputs.
  - rabidrat 8y ago
    SWIY is 100% correct about "is"-ness vs "being"-ness. It may be simple but it is incredibly profound. And yet, some things aren't actually changeable. Case in point, sexual orientation. Even with total personal commitment, it does not seem to be malleable. Not that it has never changed or evolved for anyone, but that hard work and time are not sufficient to create that change intentionally.
  - __blockcipher__ 8y ago
    Hey friend. No need for the SWIM. It gives you no plausible legal deniability. That's all I have to say. Glad you managed to perceive your problem (and therefore fix it). I too have found psychedelics helped me address issues in my life that I wasn't even aware of. edit: >Swim realizes now that no one ever "is" something, they just "are being (something) right now". and if you gain that notion, you realize that everything in yourself that you want to change can be changed with hard work and enough time. I had that exact same realization on shrooms. What a succinct and beautiful way to put it.

sleepysysadmin 8y ago

The person quit Carbs?

fb03 8y ago
Someone who isn't me maybe realized he was pigging out on food and started eating consciously. The biggest change Someone Who Isn't Me told was being able to, by sheer observation and mindfulness, wait the "hunger pangs" out and finally differentiate between being hungry and wanting to eat, two completely different concepts which get completely mixed up and indistinguishable from each other as people progress abusing food. Overeating and anxiety are closely tied together and to be able to break or weaken that link is something truly life-changing.
- icebraining 8y ago
  Is he any more content with his life, though?
  - fb03 8y ago
    That is a curious question. What do you think? Swim is definitely better now. Better health, energy levels, improved sleep. Swim can now wear normal clothes and not be so self conscious about his body because he was usually the biggest person in the room :-) Swim still eats junk food once a week so his old self still gets to indulge from time to time and not be depressed from eating healthy all day long. In fact, swim eats everything, the only thing he did is control his anxiety when putting food on his plate. Swim used to get huge anxiety relief from eating (just like a lot of people out there that deny this fact). Swim had to change that behavior to walks, meditation, making music, gaming etc. Swim also reports that his anxiety spiked when he started cutting down gorging on food. But that is now under control and swim is healthy and kicking!

onemoresoop 8y ago

Couldn't agree more, these types of , I would not even call them drugs, make for really good mental reshapers if done properly and not abused.

dcoo 8y ago

Someone who isn't me had a similar experience. The psychedelics just acted as a catalyst to act on things they already knew needed to change.

panchicore3 8y ago

Yes I think they can be used to heal with the --force args, a friend of mine broke an addiction to porn&fapping by having a realization while high on cannabis, he wasn't a regular user, read about set-and-setting looking to seat and stare himself in the mirror, the realization that was like watching his life passing in one second, helped to make him comprehend how much energy he was wasting, energy that might be used to be a better husband and father. No more porn have been seen since years... the fap is made... but by the hands of his wife.

GuB-42 8y ago

Psychedelics are unpredictable. They can: - Change your life for the better, like with your "friend". - Fuck you up completely. It is rare and usually tied to preexisting conditions, but it happens. - Give you a good, enjoyable, and rather inconsequential trip. I'd say it is by far the most common outcome, especially on low doses. - Give you a horrible experience. It usually stops you from wanting to do any more psychedelics. - Something else. The problem, and the reason why they are not currently used in mainstream (scientific) medicine is that you don't know in advance which scenario will apply to you. Things like set and setting help but there is no sure fire technique.