5 ms·

So this meme didn't come from nowhere. Blue collar professions have been given this 'helpful advice' by journalists quite a bit over the years. It was tone deaf

by smush 8y ago

So this meme didn't come from nowhere. Blue collar professions have been given this 'helpful advice' by journalists quite a bit over the years. It was tone deaf then, and still so now. I admit I don't yet see why it's verboten/'toxic' to parrot this same tone deaf advice to journalists now? I admit I haven't wandered through the more dilapidated internet street corners lately, so perhaps it's become toxic due to the sheer volume of use where its no longer something to be seen in good fun, or perhaps we are running low on goodwill as a society to be able to enjoy a joke? Setting that entire matter aside, the article has (to me) a somewhat tenuous argument that saying the tone deaf joke of 'learn to code' is disrespectful to programmers and the like. I'm not sure about that, but I don't have a coherent reason to articulate that just yet.

onlydeadheroes 8y ago
> I admit I don't yet see why it's verboten/'toxic' to parrot this same tone deaf advice to journalists now? Because journalists are better than you. This is the only "reality" the media are interested in pushing forward. It underlies every weird thing coming out of the media in the last few years.
- kristianc 8y ago
  This was also implicit in the way Twitter dealt with it. Tweeting "Learn to Code" was fine, tweeting it at a journalist would get you banned.
etg34525 8y ago
Did all the journalists being targeted by this actually tell blue collar workers to learn coding? I've searched on my own and found articles about "this company in west virginia that's training coal miners to code" or "jobs that will be automated in 10 years - is your's next?", but I don't specifically see or recall journalists telling displaced workers that coding would fix their problems. If anyone here can provide examples of that, I would appreciate it. If this was a widespread thing that many journalists spouted, I understand the outcry. If only a few journalists spouted this nonsense, then I don't think it's fair to punish an entire industry over some bad apples. What I suspect is that the "learn to code" push was more of a society-wide meme trafficked by politicians, economists, and tech CEOs. And I have to imagine that some journalists gave those people a platform. But perhaps I'm looking at the wrong evidence? EDIT: dexen's post found maybe one example: A Buzzfeed quiz that suggests coding could become the next blue collar profession. That kind of fits the "learn to code" meme. The other articles dexen posted were actually counter to that - An article where Michael Bloomberg said learning to code is unrealistic for many displaced workers, and another article about coal miners proving him wrong. Is that it? Or are there more examples?
- leereeves 8y ago
  Whether it was journalists pushing it, or "politicians, economists, and tech CEOs" pushing it, and journalists merely repeating it, I don't know. But I definitely remember hearing that message in the media for the last 20 years, and I don't recall anyone calling it "trolling" until it was directed at journalists.
  - etg34525 8y ago
    Well it's important to know what was actually said and who said it. If, by and large, journalists did not actually advocate for displaced workers to code their way out of unemployment, then harassing them with #learntocode is unjustified. I've wasted the entire morning looking for sources of this by now. Like you, I sort of remembered hearing that message over the years. But now that I'm looking, I'm not actually finding many examples where news outlets are seriously suggesting this. Have you ever thought you knew something, but end up misremembering it? There are lots of people who swear they remember a movie called Shazzam staring Sinbad as a genie, but there is no such movie. There was a movie called Kazaam staring Shaquille O'Neal, and Sinbad once dressed up in similar garb when hosting a movie showing. But people conflated the two things. I think that's whats going on. And if so, we should not be harassing journalists who had nothing to do with this.
- onlydeadheroes 8y ago
  > punish The whole point is that it wasn't a punishment when some journalists did it, but it's a punishement when some journalists hear it. So, they are full of crap.
  - etg34525 8y ago
    > it wasn't a punishment when some journalists did it, But when did they do it? and who? Please send me any evidence you have. I feel like I'm going crazy here. Not finding anything.
    - hellllllllooo 8y ago
mc32 8y ago
I guess the media don't like getting a clap back [since they stated it years ago when "those jobs ain't coming back" and so on]; they like to be the ones dishing it out.
hashberry 8y ago
I think sexism is also involved. Media professions attract more women (my journalism and marketing classes were filled with women). And the media loves to cover the gender gap in STEM. So now it's a bunch of guys tweeting to women telling them to "Learn to Code" after said women complain about getting laid off or career difficulties.
- leereeves 8y ago
  So what? Women journalists comment on male careers all the time, what's wrong with the reverse? Unless you're prepared to apply that "sexism" standard equally, you're being sexist by applying unequal standards.
  - hashberry 8y ago
    Look up James Damore. When men comment on women's career choices, they get fired. And now men are getting banned from Twitter. Probably because "sexism."
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - leereeves 8y ago
      You may be right. It's a a sexist double standard, but in certain circles, it's essentially forbidden for a man to criticize a woman in any way, while it's permissible for a woman to say anything she likes about men, however hateful. And those circles do seem to have a lot of overlap with the circles that consider the "Learn to Code" meme "toxic".
      - apacheCamel 8y ago
        I think these certain circles are quite small but the emphasis is put on them and many people, whether they agree or not, are put into the circle for viewing the "Learn to Code" meme as toxic. I agree that telling blue collar workers to learn to code originally was tone deaf and these journalists should be scolded for it but I also assume that not every journalist was on the "holier than thou" train. We should just be better to each other. Don't fight their ignorance with the same ignorance, it is just making the world a meaner place in my opinion.
420codebro 8y ago
Because journalists are pussies.
SilasX 8y ago
>So this meme didn't come from nowhere. Blue collar professions have been given this 'helpful advice' by journalists quite a bit over the years. It was tone deaf then, and still so now. I admit I don't yet see why it's verboten/'toxic' to parrot this same tone deaf advice to journalists now? Right. This short, low-effort article doesn't seem to be aware of the context of the meme, and how it's just spitting back the very meme that journalists were promoting. Of course if you're not aware of that context, or didn't take the effort to research it, then the meme will seem more trollish and less poetic than it is.
- 0-_-0 8y ago
  I agree, the writer of this piece isn't doing a good job as a journalist. Maybe he should learn to code...
msla 8y ago
> So this meme didn't come from nowhere. Blue collar professions have been given this 'helpful advice' by journalists quite a bit over the years. It was tone deaf then, and still so now. I admit I don't yet see why it's verboten/'toxic' to parrot this same tone deaf advice to journalists now? Because you're taking a meme meant for low-income low-prestige men and applying it to members of a high-income high-prestige mixed group. You are, in short, reducing the status of the journalists to those of unemployed coal miners. Hell, you might as well slap a paper hat on their heads and tell them to man a fryer. It's "problematic" and "toxic" to be reminded that you can fall in the class structure like that.
- 0815test 8y ago
  I don't think it has anything to do with income - journalism is not an especially "high income" career path. It's all about culture, cliques and good-old-boy networks - here as perhaps in other cases, journalists are relying on a rather context-specific sort of "prestige" in an effort to escape this sort of attack/criticism.
forgottenpass 8y ago
>the article has (to me) a somewhat tenuous argument that saying the tone deaf joke of 'learn to code' is disrespectful to programmers and the like Yeah, seems off to me too. If there's anything about the whole thing that's disrespectful to programmers, it's that journos think programming as a career path is beneath them.

by smush 8y ago

onlydeadheroes 8y ago

> I admit I don't yet see why it's verboten/'toxic' to parrot this same tone deaf advice to journalists now? Because journalists are better than you. This is the only "reality" the media are interested in pushing forward. It underlies every weird thing coming out of the media in the last few years.

kristianc 8y ago
This was also implicit in the way Twitter dealt with it. Tweeting "Learn to Code" was fine, tweeting it at a journalist would get you banned.

etg34525 8y ago

Did all the journalists being targeted by this actually tell blue collar workers to learn coding? I've searched on my own and found articles about "this company in west virginia that's training coal miners to code" or "jobs that will be automated in 10 years - is your's next?", but I don't specifically see or recall journalists telling displaced workers that coding would fix their problems. If anyone here can provide examples of that, I would appreciate it. If this was a widespread thing that many journalists spouted, I understand the outcry. If only a few journalists spouted this nonsense, then I don't think it's fair to punish an entire industry over some bad apples. What I suspect is that the "learn to code" push was more of a society-wide meme trafficked by politicians, economists, and tech CEOs. And I have to imagine that some journalists gave those people a platform. But perhaps I'm looking at the wrong evidence? EDIT: dexen's post found maybe one example: A Buzzfeed quiz that suggests coding could become the next blue collar profession. That kind of fits the "learn to code" meme. The other articles dexen posted were actually counter to that - An article where Michael Bloomberg said learning to code is unrealistic for many displaced workers, and another article about coal miners proving him wrong. Is that it? Or are there more examples?

leereeves 8y ago
Whether it was journalists pushing it, or "politicians, economists, and tech CEOs" pushing it, and journalists merely repeating it, I don't know. But I definitely remember hearing that message in the media for the last 20 years, and I don't recall anyone calling it "trolling" until it was directed at journalists.
- etg34525 8y ago
  Well it's important to know what was actually said and who said it. If, by and large, journalists did not actually advocate for displaced workers to code their way out of unemployment, then harassing them with #learntocode is unjustified. I've wasted the entire morning looking for sources of this by now. Like you, I sort of remembered hearing that message over the years. But now that I'm looking, I'm not actually finding many examples where news outlets are seriously suggesting this. Have you ever thought you knew something, but end up misremembering it? There are lots of people who swear they remember a movie called Shazzam staring Sinbad as a genie, but there is no such movie. There was a movie called Kazaam staring Shaquille O'Neal, and Sinbad once dressed up in similar garb when hosting a movie showing. But people conflated the two things. I think that's whats going on. And if so, we should not be harassing journalists who had nothing to do with this.
onlydeadheroes 8y ago
> punish The whole point is that it wasn't a punishment when some journalists did it, but it's a punishement when some journalists hear it. So, they are full of crap.
- etg34525 8y ago
  > it wasn't a punishment when some journalists did it, But when did they do it? and who? Please send me any evidence you have. I feel like I'm going crazy here. Not finding anything.
  - hellllllllooo 8y ago

mc32 8y ago

I guess the media don't like getting a clap back [since they stated it years ago when "those jobs ain't coming back" and so on]; they like to be the ones dishing it out.

hashberry 8y ago

I think sexism is also involved. Media professions attract more women (my journalism and marketing classes were filled with women). And the media loves to cover the gender gap in STEM. So now it's a bunch of guys tweeting to women telling them to "Learn to Code" after said women complain about getting laid off or career difficulties.

leereeves 8y ago
So what? Women journalists comment on male careers all the time, what's wrong with the reverse? Unless you're prepared to apply that "sexism" standard equally, you're being sexist by applying unequal standards.
- hashberry 8y ago
  Look up James Damore. When men comment on women's career choices, they get fired. And now men are getting banned from Twitter. Probably because "sexism."
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - leereeves 8y ago
    You may be right. It's a a sexist double standard, but in certain circles, it's essentially forbidden for a man to criticize a woman in any way, while it's permissible for a woman to say anything she likes about men, however hateful. And those circles do seem to have a lot of overlap with the circles that consider the "Learn to Code" meme "toxic".
    - apacheCamel 8y ago
      I think these certain circles are quite small but the emphasis is put on them and many people, whether they agree or not, are put into the circle for viewing the "Learn to Code" meme as toxic. I agree that telling blue collar workers to learn to code originally was tone deaf and these journalists should be scolded for it but I also assume that not every journalist was on the "holier than thou" train. We should just be better to each other. Don't fight their ignorance with the same ignorance, it is just making the world a meaner place in my opinion.

420codebro 8y ago

Because journalists are pussies.

SilasX 8y ago

>So this meme didn't come from nowhere. Blue collar professions have been given this 'helpful advice' by journalists quite a bit over the years. It was tone deaf then, and still so now. I admit I don't yet see why it's verboten/'toxic' to parrot this same tone deaf advice to journalists now? Right. This short, low-effort article doesn't seem to be aware of the context of the meme, and how it's just spitting back the very meme that journalists were promoting. Of course if you're not aware of that context, or didn't take the effort to research it, then the meme will seem more trollish and less poetic than it is.

0-_-0 8y ago
I agree, the writer of this piece isn't doing a good job as a journalist. Maybe he should learn to code...

msla 8y ago

> So this meme didn't come from nowhere. Blue collar professions have been given this 'helpful advice' by journalists quite a bit over the years. It was tone deaf then, and still so now. I admit I don't yet see why it's verboten/'toxic' to parrot this same tone deaf advice to journalists now? Because you're taking a meme meant for low-income low-prestige men and applying it to members of a high-income high-prestige mixed group. You are, in short, reducing the status of the journalists to those of unemployed coal miners. Hell, you might as well slap a paper hat on their heads and tell them to man a fryer. It's "problematic" and "toxic" to be reminded that you can fall in the class structure like that.

0815test 8y ago
I don't think it has anything to do with income - journalism is not an especially "high income" career path. It's all about culture, cliques and good-old-boy networks - here as perhaps in other cases, journalists are relying on a rather context-specific sort of "prestige" in an effort to escape this sort of attack/criticism.

forgottenpass 8y ago

>the article has (to me) a somewhat tenuous argument that saying the tone deaf joke of 'learn to code' is disrespectful to programmers and the like Yeah, seems off to me too. If there's anything about the whole thing that's disrespectful to programmers, it's that journos think programming as a career path is beneath them.