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They should never had cut the prices to begin with. For a company in need of cash I don't understand the fascination with the price cuts. There is demand suffic

They should never had cut the prices to begin with. For a company in need of cash I don't understand the fascination with the price cuts. There is demand sufficient to keep them going and with the TMY coming it should open a new market. The S&X price cuts are only warranted if they don't plan to bring their interiors up to par. The TM3 price confusion seemed mostly caused by their change up in how auto pilot and full self driving were sold. With enhanced auto pilot being removed for a lesser version and FSD taking some features from EAP. Even at the new two thousand dollar price for FSD presented to existing EAP owners I wonder what the take rate is. They haven't shown significant improvement. My concern long term with Tesla is that they still don't have up to date features for the driver other than "autopilot" and that feature is quickly becoming the norm for many cars. Their blue tooth support is half baked, you cannot select music from your phone through the car's UI, you have to use the phone. Automatic wipers and high beams are both sporadic with the latter being near useless. The promised voice commands never arrived. Their energy monitoring screen is the least useful of all EVs. They are quickly turning into a two trick pony in a world where everyone else has their own stable.

mtgx 8y ago
I would agree. Tesla didn't really need to cut the prices until 2020/2021, when more real competition will come to market. Until then they should've taken advantage of this window to fix their finances and make sure they have enough cash for future investments. Not to mention this whole price cut thing pissed off a lot of Model 3 customers who purchased earlier. I also share your concern about Tesla/Musk's extreme focus on "self-driving features". For now I don't think self-driving is much more than a gimmick. Yes, a gimmick that attracts headlines, but nonethless a gimmick and it's only a matter of time before more people wake up and realize it is one and that full self-driving is nowhere close to being ready. In the meantime, Tesla adds a significant amount of cost to its cars by making them "self-driving ready" and whatnot, instead of focusing on capturing more EV market share by launching lower-cost EVs. And no there is no contradiction between what I said about the price cutting above and the lower-cost EVs. The lower-cost EVs don't have to be unprofitable. Tesla just needs to stop adding "useless" features such as falcon wings and "full self-driving hardware" (that doesn't even achieve its objective) and make its EVs both unprofitable but also costing more than they should.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- rcMgD2BwE72F 8y ago
  >Not to mention this whole price cut thing pissed off a lot of Model 3 customers who purchased earlier. Who knew the cost of EV/Tesla would drop as they increase production? /s Buyer's remorse on price should be the least of Tesla's concern: they are making their products more affordable to even more consumers.
rcMgD2BwE72F 8y ago
>They are quickly turning into a two trick pony in a world where everyone else has their own stable. What everyone else has? * No battery tech * Substandard electric drive trains * No OTA systems * No charging network * Crappy entertainment systems (your long term concerns are ridiculous: Bluetooth, USB connections, auto wipers and high beams, voice commands, energy monitoring > this is nothing compared to the issues that the competition has) * Poor self-driving tech and almost zero data * No control over the distribution network (the dealerships are a PITA for a manufacturer that tries to sell EV, because dealer can't service cars that don't need service except washer fluid) * etc I'm not even talking about their conflict of interests (continuing making profit from ICE sales while increasing EV production without cannibalizing their own ICE sales... in a market downturn)
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > No battery tech I thought Tesla’s batteries are fairly run of the mill. The competitive advantage is they’re producing them at scale. That’s a moat, but an expensive one to maintain. Cutting prices would seem to remain a mistake.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
    Doesn't Tesla's batteries really mean Panasonic's batteries? Gigafactory 1 is a joint venture with Panasonic. What's stopping any of the other vehicle manufacturers from entering a joint venture agreement with any of the other large battery manufacturers?
    - rcMgD2BwE72F 8y ago
      You're confusing battery packs with battery cells.
    - clouddrover 8y ago
      Nothing. Toyota has a joint venture with Panasonic: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-01-22/toyota-panasonic-battery-venture-is-an-electric-car-power-shift https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-01-22/toyota...
cmsonger 8y ago
> The TM3 price confusion seemed mostly caused by their change up in how auto pilot and full self driving were sold. With enhanced auto pilot being removed for a lesser version and FSD taking some features from EAP. Don't miss the overall lowering of the AP bar. 2017 EAP: Going to drive you exit to exit on the expressway at twice the safety of a human driver. 2017 FSD: Summon your car from across the country. 2019 EAP: Keeps in the lane and controls the speed while you watch vigilantly, ready to take over at any moment. 2019 FSD: Moves around outside the lanes while you watch vigilantly, ready to take over at any moment.
treis 8y ago
>They should never had cut the prices to begin with. For a company in need of cash I don't understand the fascination with the price cuts. There is demand sufficient to keep them going and with the TMY coming it should open a new market. It's odd because Tesla has always been a luxury/up-scale car, even if their quality has been a bit spotty. I understand the motivations for Tesla to move into the mass market, but they can't also be a luxury car company with a cut rate sales experience. They're neither fish nor fowl at this point. A company with a cheap sales model trying to sell a car with a premium price.
pureliquidhw 8y ago
Interested in your comment on Tesla Bluetooth support. When you say "select music" do you mean basic skipping/play pause? Because anything more than that (like browsing a catalog of music) really isn't supported by the Bluetooth protocol AFAIK. I don't think any car does that. Wireless Android Auto/Apple CarPlay almost work now, which may be closer to what you mean. I never looked into it, but I'm surprised Tesla doesn't support either. I understand the arguments Tesla is making about not supporting CarPlay/AA, but still, Hyundai figured it out...
- Rebelgecko 8y ago
  I've had rental cars that were able to let me scroll through Spotify playlists and the like via Bluetooth, although some or all (I think Ford's, maybe Mazda too) required an extra app on your phone.
xkjkls 8y ago
> There is demand sufficient to keep them going Is there? The Model 3 went from selling 18,000 cars in December to only 6,000 in Jan/Feb. Where is this demand?
- m463 8y ago
  I wonder if that's due to the federal + state discounts ending moving lots of sales from jan/feb back to december.
  - xkjkls 8y ago
    I'm sure some of it is, but given the multiple this company is trading at compared to its peers, a drop in sales of over 60% month over month should cause investors to panic.
m463 8y ago
I suspect the price of the car will determine market share going forward. For example, the leaf had a lower price for a long time and sold 400,000 cars.

mtgx 8y ago

I would agree. Tesla didn't really need to cut the prices until 2020/2021, when more real competition will come to market. Until then they should've taken advantage of this window to fix their finances and make sure they have enough cash for future investments. Not to mention this whole price cut thing pissed off a lot of Model 3 customers who purchased earlier. I also share your concern about Tesla/Musk's extreme focus on "self-driving features". For now I don't think self-driving is much more than a gimmick. Yes, a gimmick that attracts headlines, but nonethless a gimmick and it's only a matter of time before more people wake up and realize it is one and that full self-driving is nowhere close to being ready. In the meantime, Tesla adds a significant amount of cost to its cars by making them "self-driving ready" and whatnot, instead of focusing on capturing more EV market share by launching lower-cost EVs. And no there is no contradiction between what I said about the price cutting above and the lower-cost EVs. The lower-cost EVs don't have to be unprofitable. Tesla just needs to stop adding "useless" features such as falcon wings and "full self-driving hardware" (that doesn't even achieve its objective) and make its EVs both unprofitable but also costing more than they should.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
rcMgD2BwE72F 8y ago
>Not to mention this whole price cut thing pissed off a lot of Model 3 customers who purchased earlier. Who knew the cost of EV/Tesla would drop as they increase production? /s Buyer's remorse on price should be the least of Tesla's concern: they are making their products more affordable to even more consumers.

rcMgD2BwE72F 8y ago

>They are quickly turning into a two trick pony in a world where everyone else has their own stable. What everyone else has? * No battery tech * Substandard electric drive trains * No OTA systems * No charging network * Crappy entertainment systems (your long term concerns are ridiculous: Bluetooth, USB connections, auto wipers and high beams, voice commands, energy monitoring > this is nothing compared to the issues that the competition has) * Poor self-driving tech and almost zero data * No control over the distribution network (the dealerships are a PITA for a manufacturer that tries to sell EV, because dealer can't service cars that don't need service except washer fluid) * etc I'm not even talking about their conflict of interests (continuing making profit from ICE sales while increasing EV production without cannibalizing their own ICE sales... in a market downturn)

JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> No battery tech I thought Tesla’s batteries are fairly run of the mill. The competitive advantage is they’re producing them at scale. That’s a moat, but an expensive one to maintain. Cutting prices would seem to remain a mistake.
- TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
  Doesn't Tesla's batteries really mean Panasonic's batteries? Gigafactory 1 is a joint venture with Panasonic. What's stopping any of the other vehicle manufacturers from entering a joint venture agreement with any of the other large battery manufacturers?
  - rcMgD2BwE72F 8y ago
    You're confusing battery packs with battery cells.
  - clouddrover 8y ago
    Nothing. Toyota has a joint venture with Panasonic: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-01-22/toyota-panasonic-battery-venture-is-an-electric-car-power-shift https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-01-22/toyota...

cmsonger 8y ago

> The TM3 price confusion seemed mostly caused by their change up in how auto pilot and full self driving were sold. With enhanced auto pilot being removed for a lesser version and FSD taking some features from EAP. Don't miss the overall lowering of the AP bar. 2017 EAP: Going to drive you exit to exit on the expressway at twice the safety of a human driver. 2017 FSD: Summon your car from across the country. 2019 EAP: Keeps in the lane and controls the speed while you watch vigilantly, ready to take over at any moment. 2019 FSD: Moves around outside the lanes while you watch vigilantly, ready to take over at any moment.

treis 8y ago

>They should never had cut the prices to begin with. For a company in need of cash I don't understand the fascination with the price cuts. There is demand sufficient to keep them going and with the TMY coming it should open a new market. It's odd because Tesla has always been a luxury/up-scale car, even if their quality has been a bit spotty. I understand the motivations for Tesla to move into the mass market, but they can't also be a luxury car company with a cut rate sales experience. They're neither fish nor fowl at this point. A company with a cheap sales model trying to sell a car with a premium price.

pureliquidhw 8y ago

Interested in your comment on Tesla Bluetooth support. When you say "select music" do you mean basic skipping/play pause? Because anything more than that (like browsing a catalog of music) really isn't supported by the Bluetooth protocol AFAIK. I don't think any car does that. Wireless Android Auto/Apple CarPlay almost work now, which may be closer to what you mean. I never looked into it, but I'm surprised Tesla doesn't support either. I understand the arguments Tesla is making about not supporting CarPlay/AA, but still, Hyundai figured it out...

Rebelgecko 8y ago
I've had rental cars that were able to let me scroll through Spotify playlists and the like via Bluetooth, although some or all (I think Ford's, maybe Mazda too) required an extra app on your phone.

xkjkls 8y ago

> There is demand sufficient to keep them going Is there? The Model 3 went from selling 18,000 cars in December to only 6,000 in Jan/Feb. Where is this demand?

m463 8y ago
I wonder if that's due to the federal + state discounts ending moving lots of sales from jan/feb back to december.
- xkjkls 8y ago
  I'm sure some of it is, but given the multiple this company is trading at compared to its peers, a drop in sales of over 60% month over month should cause investors to panic.

m463 8y ago

I suspect the price of the car will determine market share going forward. For example, the leaf had a lower price for a long time and sold 400,000 cars.