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It befuddles me to see people relating this to external motivations, not a genuine concern for safety. Would you fly 737 max8 tomorrow? Anybody who knows anythi

It befuddles me to see people relating this to external motivations, not a genuine concern for safety. Would you fly 737 max8 tomorrow? Anybody who knows anything about Chinese aviation industry knows that it is severely government-regulated industry and the top 1 priority is safety. It has better records than the American counterpart. While BOEING(being one of the pillars of American industry) might twist arms in corporate America, it simply doesn't have enough influence to warrant such risks with the Chinese government. Simple as that. I would very much appreciate FAA doing the same. And it saddens me to see my comment being downvoted so rapidly. Has it become too hard in this corporate America to not buy into this bs? Has it not been obvious from history lessons that companies can only be held up to the moral standards that the law could effectively demand? A thorough investigation means potentially losing hundreds of billions of dollars. I would not expect Boeing to jump into this without some iron-fisted slaps. In the current trade circumstances, doubly not so. It is FAA's job to be doubtful and strict, not Boeing's. And it disappoints when FAA is testing reasonable doubts with human lives, not Boeing's profits. If you are so inclined to downvote this, fly 737 max8 whenever you can probably help your corporate daddies more. Put your life on it where you mean it.

notimetorelax 8y ago
For what it’s worth, I checked what planes I take on my next flight with the full intent to change the airline if it was 737 max8.
kerng 8y ago
You have very good points, I assume the FAA will issue a similar message soon - as it seems the most logical step if one cares about safety. I will certainly not fly in one of these planes anytime soon.
sk5t 8y ago
> It has better records than the American counterpart What is the basis for this statement? And are you trying to say something about airline maintenance policy, or manufacturing, or training, or record-keeping?
- SeaSeaRider 8y ago
  It’s such nonsense, depressing to see it in a highly voted comment.
  - tokai 8y ago
    When I try to look it up I find that China have a rate of 0.45 accidents per million departures while the US have a rate of 1.28. If someone writes something wrong, please provide a source showing them to be wrong. https://www.icao.int/safety/iStars/Pages/Accident-Statistics.aspx https://www.icao.int/safety/iStars/Pages/Accident-Statistics...
    - tyingq 8y ago
      That's by country of occurrence. By country of operator is probably a better indicator. Until very recently, China had more international passengers than domestic. Your figure is also for a single year.
      - tokai 8y ago
        Yeah I know. The point here is that it is a figure. Instead of just angry words and nothing to back it up. You're welcome to calculate more precise numbers if you care about it.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
throwaway66666 8y ago
Before reading the article and before seeing your comment, I was chatting with my partner about the 737 Max, advising her to be wary. And lo and behold... You are definitely not alone in this. However, and to play a bit devil's advocate, China has a reputation as being a place that does not care about the value of human life, and the current climate is charged with USA advising people to ban Huawei's hardware, so this could have ulterior motives. If it was France banning them, nobody would bat an eye. Political or not, in my eyes it is definitely the right move.
- sct202 8y ago
  China doesn't value the average person's life. But as you can see in the Huawei case, they seem to value some lives very highly. I suspect that the people flying are multiple times more valued by the Chinese government than normal citizens.
  - aaalucard 8y ago
    Funny that more countries are joining Chian while USA or Canada haven't announced anything yet. Do American politicians care a person's life or their relationships with companies like Boeing
- stevehawk 8y ago
  Well if it were France we would bat an eye because Airbus.
YinglingLight 8y ago
Billions of dollars are involved in the procurement of the 737. When billions of dollars are involved, politics is inevitable. Why are Boeing the only planes that crash?
- mprev 8y ago
  The Airbus A320 alone has had 35 hull loss incidents. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_the_Airbus_A320_family https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incide... Whatever else you think about this topic, it’s utter nonsense to say only Boeings crash.
  - delfinom 8y ago
    None of those crashes are due to new undocumented features pilots totally don't need to be retained for.
    - mprev 8y ago
      That’s not what I was refuting.
Sebb767 8y ago
> A thorough investigation means potentially losing hundreds of billions of dollars. I mean, even from a financial perspective: If a third one crashes, Boeing can deliver its 737 max8 to the graveyard. Not to mention the lost trust by ignoring the obvious signs. It is possible that these two crashes are unrelated and that it's simply bad luck that it hit the 737 max8 two times. But that's are serious gamble with the reputation, not even considering possible fines and lawsuits.
ardy42 8y ago
> It befuddles me to see people relating this to external motivations, not a genuine concern for safety. It doesn't befuddle me. China has a bit of a history of using safety regulations as a pretext for political and trade retaliation. China and the US are currently in a tariff war, and Boeing airplanes happen to be one of the US's biggest exports to China. While the FAA might not be perfectly independent, I'm pretty sure it's more politically independent than most Chinese government institutions. I'm actually surprised they didn't take an action like this sooner. Here's a recent article that outlines some other examples of China using safety regulations to retaliate: https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2019/03/06/world/asia/ap-as-china-canola.html https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2019/03/06/world/asia/ap-as... > China said Wednesday that it is blocking some imports of the agricultural product canola from Canada because of fears of insect infestation. > The move, which comes amid heightened tensions over Canada's arrest of a Chinese tech executive, is seen by some as a new tactic to seek leverage over Ottawa.... > [The foreign ministry spokesman] cited "harmful organisms" that he did not identify further, and said China's government "needs to protect the health and safety of its own people."... > Canadian Agriculture Minister Marie-Claude Bibeau said in a statement that the Canadian Food Inspection Agency conducted investigations after China issued notices of non-compliance on canola seed imports, including nine since January. She said the agency had not identified any pests or bacteria of concern.... > China, whose rapid growth has made it an important market for many countries, has a history of using commercial retaliation against those at odds with Beijing. > The most recent high-profile target was South Korean retailer Lotte, which sold land to the Seoul government for a U.S. anti-missile system opposed by Beijing. Authorities closed most of the company's 99 supermarkets and other outlets — often alleging safety violations — and a theme park project. > China suspended a trade deal with Norway and restricted imports of Norwegian salmon after the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded to Chinese political prisoner Liu Xiaobo in 2010. It stopped buying fruit from the Philippines during a dispute over territory in the South China Sea. Britain and other countries also faced retaliation over meetings with Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama, considered a dangerous separatist by Beijing.

notimetorelax 8y ago

For what it’s worth, I checked what planes I take on my next flight with the full intent to change the airline if it was 737 max8.

kerng 8y ago

You have very good points, I assume the FAA will issue a similar message soon - as it seems the most logical step if one cares about safety. I will certainly not fly in one of these planes anytime soon.

sk5t 8y ago

> It has better records than the American counterpart What is the basis for this statement? And are you trying to say something about airline maintenance policy, or manufacturing, or training, or record-keeping?

SeaSeaRider 8y ago
It’s such nonsense, depressing to see it in a highly voted comment.
- tokai 8y ago
  When I try to look it up I find that China have a rate of 0.45 accidents per million departures while the US have a rate of 1.28. If someone writes something wrong, please provide a source showing them to be wrong. https://www.icao.int/safety/iStars/Pages/Accident-Statistics.aspx https://www.icao.int/safety/iStars/Pages/Accident-Statistics...
  - tyingq 8y ago
    That's by country of occurrence. By country of operator is probably a better indicator. Until very recently, China had more international passengers than domestic. Your figure is also for a single year.
    - tokai 8y ago
      Yeah I know. The point here is that it is a figure. Instead of just angry words and nothing to back it up. You're welcome to calculate more precise numbers if you care about it.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

throwaway66666 8y ago

Before reading the article and before seeing your comment, I was chatting with my partner about the 737 Max, advising her to be wary. And lo and behold... You are definitely not alone in this. However, and to play a bit devil's advocate, China has a reputation as being a place that does not care about the value of human life, and the current climate is charged with USA advising people to ban Huawei's hardware, so this could have ulterior motives. If it was France banning them, nobody would bat an eye. Political or not, in my eyes it is definitely the right move.

sct202 8y ago
China doesn't value the average person's life. But as you can see in the Huawei case, they seem to value some lives very highly. I suspect that the people flying are multiple times more valued by the Chinese government than normal citizens.
- aaalucard 8y ago
  Funny that more countries are joining Chian while USA or Canada haven't announced anything yet. Do American politicians care a person's life or their relationships with companies like Boeing
stevehawk 8y ago
Well if it were France we would bat an eye because Airbus.

YinglingLight 8y ago

Billions of dollars are involved in the procurement of the 737. When billions of dollars are involved, politics is inevitable. Why are Boeing the only planes that crash?

mprev 8y ago
The Airbus A320 alone has had 35 hull loss incidents. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_the_Airbus_A320_family https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incide... Whatever else you think about this topic, it’s utter nonsense to say only Boeings crash.
- delfinom 8y ago
  None of those crashes are due to new undocumented features pilots totally don't need to be retained for.
  - mprev 8y ago
    That’s not what I was refuting.

Sebb767 8y ago

> A thorough investigation means potentially losing hundreds of billions of dollars. I mean, even from a financial perspective: If a third one crashes, Boeing can deliver its 737 max8 to the graveyard. Not to mention the lost trust by ignoring the obvious signs. It is possible that these two crashes are unrelated and that it's simply bad luck that it hit the 737 max8 two times. But that's are serious gamble with the reputation, not even considering possible fines and lawsuits.

ardy42 8y ago

> It befuddles me to see people relating this to external motivations, not a genuine concern for safety. It doesn't befuddle me. China has a bit of a history of using safety regulations as a pretext for political and trade retaliation. China and the US are currently in a tariff war, and Boeing airplanes happen to be one of the US's biggest exports to China. While the FAA might not be perfectly independent, I'm pretty sure it's more politically independent than most Chinese government institutions. I'm actually surprised they didn't take an action like this sooner. Here's a recent article that outlines some other examples of China using safety regulations to retaliate: https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2019/03/06/world/asia/ap-as-china-canola.html https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2019/03/06/world/asia/ap-as... > China said Wednesday that it is blocking some imports of the agricultural product canola from Canada because of fears of insect infestation. > The move, which comes amid heightened tensions over Canada's arrest of a Chinese tech executive, is seen by some as a new tactic to seek leverage over Ottawa.... > [The foreign ministry spokesman] cited "harmful organisms" that he did not identify further, and said China's government "needs to protect the health and safety of its own people."... > Canadian Agriculture Minister Marie-Claude Bibeau said in a statement that the Canadian Food Inspection Agency conducted investigations after China issued notices of non-compliance on canola seed imports, including nine since January. She said the agency had not identified any pests or bacteria of concern.... > China, whose rapid growth has made it an important market for many countries, has a history of using commercial retaliation against those at odds with Beijing. > The most recent high-profile target was South Korean retailer Lotte, which sold land to the Seoul government for a U.S. anti-missile system opposed by Beijing. Authorities closed most of the company's 99 supermarkets and other outlets — often alleging safety violations — and a theme park project. > China suspended a trade deal with Norway and restricted imports of Norwegian salmon after the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded to Chinese political prisoner Liu Xiaobo in 2010. It stopped buying fruit from the Philippines during a dispute over territory in the South China Sea. Britain and other countries also faced retaliation over meetings with Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama, considered a dangerous separatist by Beijing.