4 ms·

This is the most useful short summary of Android's pieces I've read--it's part summary and part correction. The "How It’s Generated" section is interesting bec

This is the most useful short summary of Android's pieces I've read--it's part summary and part correction. The "How It’s Generated" section is interesting because Bray points out that it's not important to Android how the native or Dalvik code is generated so long as it uses the APIs. Currently it's most convenient to program in Java but I wonder how long that will remain so.

quanticle 16y ago
Well, in theory, it should be possible to create another language that targets the Dalvik VM (or port an existing language). In practice, I don't know how easy that would be.
roel_v 16y ago
I wondered though how much of this recent change in emphasis is inspired by recent, ehm, 'changes' in the Java landscape. I seem to remember that Google/Android evangelists put much more emphasis on Java being the language to code for Android, and how the overall picture seemed to be much more Java-centered back then (well only 2 or 3 years ago). Recently I see a bit of 'backpedaling' in that department. I guess by now there's a team at Google working on a replacement for the Java Android development environment, to be able to move away from what is now a tainted platform, so it's all perfectly understandable, and I can understand they need to phase in this transformation to not create shocks in the Android ecosystem; but I still feel a bit manipulated, being talked to in a way that both parties know is doublespeak but nobody being able to do anything about it.
- theBobMcCormick 16y ago
  There's absolutely zero evidence for your assertion that Google is "moving away" from Java for Android development. Java is still the only official route for creating Android app (I haven't looked at the NDK, but I am under the impression it requires at least a little Java for glue code.. I could be wrong there). However, the possibility for creating Android apps in other languages is not new. For example, the Android Scripting Environment(now called Scripting Layer for Android) was announced on the Google Open Source blog back in June 2009 (http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2009/06/introducing-android-scripting.html http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2009/06/introducing-an...), which is positively pre-historic for Android's rather short history (for comparison, see the timeline here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)#Update_history http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)#Upda...). There's nothing in Bray's post that would indicate anything other than a continuation of the same public roadmap Android has had since at least v1.5 was released on the old G1 phones.
  - roel_v 16y ago
    No, of course there's no evidence, but Google would be stupid no to be preparing for a backup route, and if there's one thing that Google isn't, it's stupid. And yes, of course there always was the possibility that other languages would target Dalvik, but it was never mentioned as something Google would do, or as something that Google would consider beneficial to anyone. That tone is changing as of late I feel. That's what I meant - I feel that recent public talks about Android from prominent Google evangelists is slowly preparing the Android world for a gradual change. Not that they'll drop Java like a hot potato next year - that'd be infanticide. It's just that the initial message of 'Java all the way for all things Android' (which was meant to provide developers reassurance that they wouldn't have to work with a myriad of libraries in all sorts of languages, leading to a fragmented landscape on the development side) is not said as loudly any more. Then again, maybe that was the plan all the way, to provide a broader development environment once the developer base and tools were broad and mature enough. I mean, what do I know, right.
    - nswanberg 16y ago
      I think you're right. It seems odd that Bray would emphasize the code generation point apropos of nothing. It'd be as if he decided now would be a good time to point out that Android devices are in fact Turing-complete and that the language used to program for them is not an innate part of their nature. It could be that he is just making an observation. But I read it as a hint of things to come or possibly a gentle suggestion for others to follow. I think it would be interesting to use Google's Go for the native work, for example.

quanticle 16y ago

Well, in theory, it should be possible to create another language that targets the Dalvik VM (or port an existing language). In practice, I don't know how easy that would be.

roel_v 16y ago

I wondered though how much of this recent change in emphasis is inspired by recent, ehm, 'changes' in the Java landscape. I seem to remember that Google/Android evangelists put much more emphasis on Java being the language to code for Android, and how the overall picture seemed to be much more Java-centered back then (well only 2 or 3 years ago). Recently I see a bit of 'backpedaling' in that department. I guess by now there's a team at Google working on a replacement for the Java Android development environment, to be able to move away from what is now a tainted platform, so it's all perfectly understandable, and I can understand they need to phase in this transformation to not create shocks in the Android ecosystem; but I still feel a bit manipulated, being talked to in a way that both parties know is doublespeak but nobody being able to do anything about it.

theBobMcCormick 16y ago
There's absolutely zero evidence for your assertion that Google is "moving away" from Java for Android development. Java is still the only official route for creating Android app (I haven't looked at the NDK, but I am under the impression it requires at least a little Java for glue code.. I could be wrong there). However, the possibility for creating Android apps in other languages is not new. For example, the Android Scripting Environment(now called Scripting Layer for Android) was announced on the Google Open Source blog back in June 2009 (http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2009/06/introducing-android-scripting.html http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2009/06/introducing-an...), which is positively pre-historic for Android's rather short history (for comparison, see the timeline here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)#Update_history http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)#Upda...). There's nothing in Bray's post that would indicate anything other than a continuation of the same public roadmap Android has had since at least v1.5 was released on the old G1 phones.
- roel_v 16y ago
  No, of course there's no evidence, but Google would be stupid no to be preparing for a backup route, and if there's one thing that Google isn't, it's stupid. And yes, of course there always was the possibility that other languages would target Dalvik, but it was never mentioned as something Google would do, or as something that Google would consider beneficial to anyone. That tone is changing as of late I feel. That's what I meant - I feel that recent public talks about Android from prominent Google evangelists is slowly preparing the Android world for a gradual change. Not that they'll drop Java like a hot potato next year - that'd be infanticide. It's just that the initial message of 'Java all the way for all things Android' (which was meant to provide developers reassurance that they wouldn't have to work with a myriad of libraries in all sorts of languages, leading to a fragmented landscape on the development side) is not said as loudly any more. Then again, maybe that was the plan all the way, to provide a broader development environment once the developer base and tools were broad and mature enough. I mean, what do I know, right.
  - nswanberg 16y ago
    I think you're right. It seems odd that Bray would emphasize the code generation point apropos of nothing. It'd be as if he decided now would be a good time to point out that Android devices are in fact Turing-complete and that the language used to program for them is not an innate part of their nature. It could be that he is just making an observation. But I read it as a hint of things to come or possibly a gentle suggestion for others to follow. I think it would be interesting to use Google's Go for the native work, for example.