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I take doxylamine succinate 5-10 mg about an hour before bed and find that it helps with sleep much more than melatonin, which only seemed to help with a very t
by themodelplumber 8y ago
I take doxylamine succinate 5-10 mg about an hour before bed and find that it helps with sleep much more than melatonin, which only seemed to help with a very time-limited form of tiredness (it wore off and I'd wake up).
Still, even the antihistamine (sold as a sleep aid) can't do all the work when something big is going down the next day. Like a meeting with a big client requiring a lot of travel. A big stressor must be addressed.
In that case though, I find that writing 1000 to 2000 words about everything that could possibly go wrong gets me to the point where I can sleep like a baby. Precisely because I'm attaking the source of the anxiety. Most nights though it's easier just to do some basic organization and scheduling and take 1/3 of a little pill.
In the morning I do often take 50-100mg Jet Alert to blunt the fade-in. It's way easier to feel comfortable taking caffeine when fully rested.
An experiment in progress always, but at 9h average sleep (excluding waking times as recorded on FitBit) I managed to go 10 months between illness, as someone with an autoimmune condition (sjogrens). My previous record was 4 months. On top of that, no more depression. My subjective day ratings have gone through the roof. I have to laugh when I'm working with 10 hours of sleep and literally cannot find a single thing to be sour about in my entire life condition (the journaling template I use takes me through this). Plenty of problems, just more resources to work with. Sleep is worth the chase.
Edit: While I'm talking about anxiety, I have been testing L-theanine recently and so far it seems to lower the anxiety floor a little bit. There's nothing like getting your stressors sorted directly, but sometimes things are more complex than that, and if supplements can help, great.
- pmiller2 8y agoDoxylamine succinate is a potent anticholinergic drug, as are (IIRC) all other OTC antihistamines that cause drowsiness. Long term use of such drugs have been linked to dementia later in life. I would at least read some of the literature and re-evaluate whether using drugs like this to sleep on a regular basis is worthwhile.
- themodelplumber 8y agoAlready done. No dementia in family history, and the actual literature leaves much to be desired in terms of qualitative result. By the way I discourage the use of the term "linked" in light conversation as it has recently and unfortunately become a socio-culturally appropriated term indicating proof of causality. That a linkage exists often means far less than most people think, and this could immediately impact their health-related decision-making for the worse.
- GordonS 8y agoI didn't read the paper since it first came out (1-2 years ago?), but I seem to recall a clear causal link was found?
- themodelplumber 8y agoI would really encourage you to review the study again. For example, the authors themselves acknowledged a lot of legitimate reader concerns with the inclusion of this statement: "These observational studies have 4 important limitations. First, current anticholinergic use was ascertained at study entry and periodically during follow-up only by conducting a medication inventory. Second, these studies lacked information about the dose and duration of anticholinergic use. Third, these studies had short follow-up periods. This last point is important because the pathophysiological changes in the brains of patients with AD require several years to occur. Finally, these studies did not take into account that certain anticholinergics are used to manage insomnia and depression, prodromal conditions that can be seen in early but undiagnosed dementia, leading to protopathic bias." I had other concerns as well, and these items alone are a pretty big deal. Like I said above, the _quality_ of the establishment of a "link" is really leaving much to be desired here. This is barely even legitimate science, where any kind of causality is concerned. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2091745 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar...
- GordonS 8y agoThanks for taking the time to provide a summary - I will indeed take another look (I have hydroxyzine at night, so it's very relevant for me)
- Legogris 8y agoSomething that I have not been able to get an answer to; could the long-term effects of regular antihistamine use be mitigated by supplementing with choline in the morning/daytime?
- pmiller2 8y agoMy initial thought would be probably not, because anticholinergic drugs work by blocking cholinergic receptors. No matter how much choline you eat, a blocked receptor is still blocked, until the drug lets go and gets broken down. That said, eating a few extra eggs in the morning probably wouldn't hurt. (Of course, this is not medical advice, because I'm not a doctor or a biological scientist of any sort.)
- elhudy 8y agoThe writing idea is solid - thanks for sharing! You should try weighted blankets if you haven't already.
- themodelplumber 8y agoYou are welcome. I have found that the presence of two cats, one on either side of my body, pinning me into bed, extends my nap time for the better. At nighttime though, a weighted blanket would probably be just the thing! I appreciate the recommendation.
- srean 8y agoGood that it worked for you. In fact purchasing it from the anti-allergic counter shelf used to be lot cheaper than buying it as a sleep medication. I did not benefit from the few times I tried it. Its very potent, even 1/4th makes me super drowsy. However, under the surface my mind is alert. Its like being very drunk but trying furiously to concentrate through that drowning drunkenness. As a result, I did get sleep, but not remotely of the restful kind. L-Theanine and writing on the other hand has been a big help. So lots of shared experiences.