4 ms·

You're a western pilot. Polynesians had none of that. Here is the essence of how Polynesians navigated. Lie on your back in the canoe. Pay attention to the

by btilly 8y ago

You're a western pilot. Polynesians had none of that. Here is the essence of how Polynesians navigated. Lie on your back in the canoe. Pay attention to the main swell. During the day, use the swell to keep a straight direction. During the night use the points where specific stars rise and set to be sure you're still going in the right direction. When you get close to the target island, you know that by a variety of signals ranging from the movements of birds that nest on that island, to the waves bouncing back from the swell hitting the island. These make it OK to miss your target by a bit, you'll find it and still be able to steer towards it. Note what is missing. No latitude. No longitude. No time source. No GPS. No instruments. And yes, the whole thing is done lying on your back. For Polynesians, navigation was spiritual. Ranging from being able to keep yourself in a trance to keep from losing track, to the stories you told yourself to remember what each star told you about where you were going, to years of guild training. I learned about this back in university. Included was a comparison of the safety record for sea voyages in the South Pacific conducted by western ships with western navigation and Polynesians during the 1950s and 1960s. The Polynesians did better.

sn41 8y ago
Do you have some sources where I can read more on this stuff? I came across stick maps when I visited museums in New Zealand, and found the idea very fascinating. I have an amateur interest in navigation.
- btilly 8y ago
  Sorry, I don't. This is all from my memory of a textbook for a course that I took in 1991 through the Open University of British Columbia, which has since become part of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thompson_Rivers_University https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thompson_Rivers_University. I no longer remember what the textbook was.
- 205guy 8y ago
  My 2 favorite books that explain it in depth, as well as the modern process of re-learning the lost art/skill: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18375122-hawaiki-rising https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18375122-hawaiki-rising https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We,_the_Navigators https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We,_the_Navigators (Edit: both mentioned in the article, now that I've read it)
  - itwasnoaccident 8y ago
    Another book that elaborates at some length on non-instrument navigation and the evidence for it is Pathway of the Birds. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/41112497-pathway-of-the-birds https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/41112497-pathway-of-the-...
dnautics 8y ago
> No latitude. No longitude. That's wrong. Tracking which star zeniths is exactly latitude.. you measure, for example Arcturus (which is super easy to find) for Hawaii or Sirius for Tahiti, and keep going due South or North until the "home star" zeniths; you can nearly guarantee due north and southness by traveling perpendicular to solar or stellar motion. Then you head due east or west (which does require stateful knowledge); accuracy can be in a say 200 mile swath and by carefully observing clouds which rise due to orographic precipitation, you can know when you're close.
- ardy42 8y ago
  >> Note what is missing. No latitude. No longitude. No time source. > That's wrong. Tracking which star zeniths is exactly latitude.. I think you missed the point. Latitude and longitude are Western concepts; concepts which the Polynesians did not actually use as such. However, they were navigators, so some of their navigational concepts and practices would obviously map to the concepts of other navigators due to a shared domain. Similarly, they obviously had some concept of time. You could probably map their concepts onto hours and minutes, but if someone said they didn't have hours and minutes, they'd be right. The existence of the mapping doesn't invalidate that.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- btilly 8y ago
  That's wrong. Tracking which star zeniths is exactly latitude. Read my description again. You will see that the navigational strategy is based on setting out in the right direction and keeping your bearing steady, then being able to tell when you get close enough. In particular you do not track which star is at the zenith. That judgement is too hard to make with the naked eye on a rocking boat with no instruments. And therefore you do not know where you are. Which means that you do not know your latitude/longitude. (Though they did know roughly how long each journey would be.)
  - 8y ago

by btilly 8y ago

sn41 8y ago

Do you have some sources where I can read more on this stuff? I came across stick maps when I visited museums in New Zealand, and found the idea very fascinating. I have an amateur interest in navigation.

btilly 8y ago
Sorry, I don't. This is all from my memory of a textbook for a course that I took in 1991 through the Open University of British Columbia, which has since become part of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thompson_Rivers_University https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thompson_Rivers_University. I no longer remember what the textbook was.
205guy 8y ago
My 2 favorite books that explain it in depth, as well as the modern process of re-learning the lost art/skill: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18375122-hawaiki-rising https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18375122-hawaiki-rising https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We,_the_Navigators https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We,_the_Navigators (Edit: both mentioned in the article, now that I've read it)
- itwasnoaccident 8y ago
  Another book that elaborates at some length on non-instrument navigation and the evidence for it is Pathway of the Birds. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/41112497-pathway-of-the-birds https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/41112497-pathway-of-the-...

dnautics 8y ago

> No latitude. No longitude. That's wrong. Tracking which star zeniths is exactly latitude.. you measure, for example Arcturus (which is super easy to find) for Hawaii or Sirius for Tahiti, and keep going due South or North until the "home star" zeniths; you can nearly guarantee due north and southness by traveling perpendicular to solar or stellar motion. Then you head due east or west (which does require stateful knowledge); accuracy can be in a say 200 mile swath and by carefully observing clouds which rise due to orographic precipitation, you can know when you're close.

ardy42 8y ago
>> Note what is missing. No latitude. No longitude. No time source. > That's wrong. Tracking which star zeniths is exactly latitude.. I think you missed the point. Latitude and longitude are Western concepts; concepts which the Polynesians did not actually use as such. However, they were navigators, so some of their navigational concepts and practices would obviously map to the concepts of other navigators due to a shared domain. Similarly, they obviously had some concept of time. You could probably map their concepts onto hours and minutes, but if someone said they didn't have hours and minutes, they'd be right. The existence of the mapping doesn't invalidate that.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
btilly 8y ago
That's wrong. Tracking which star zeniths is exactly latitude. Read my description again. You will see that the navigational strategy is based on setting out in the right direction and keeping your bearing steady, then being able to tell when you get close enough. In particular you do not track which star is at the zenith. That judgement is too hard to make with the naked eye on a rocking boat with no instruments. And therefore you do not know where you are. Which means that you do not know your latitude/longitude. (Though they did know roughly how long each journey would be.)
- 8y ago