4 ms·

I don't get it. The "keep your fingers on the keyboard and use the mouse" thing has been solved ages ago with the trackpoint [1]. It's the number one reason for

by pintxo 8y ago

I don't get it. The "keep your fingers on the keyboard and use the mouse" thing has been solved ages ago with the trackpoint [1]. It's the number one reason for me not to buy a MacBook. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick

elyobo 8y ago
Figuring out how to disable that damn thing was my top priority when I had a thinkpad. Maybe I should have stuck with it, but it was just an annoying thing that was impossible to control and easily knocked to where I didn't want it to be (a problem when input focus is mouse based rather than foreground app based). So this looks interesting to me... but possibly suffers from the same problem of inadvertent activation.
- pintxo 8y ago
  It is the other way around for me, I always disable the track pad, as I else will randomly move the cursor while typing, which is really annoying.
  - elyobo 8y ago
    Yeah, I have tweaked the settings on them before; they generally have a sort of palm detection that prevents them from misfiring which works pretty well for me - only in one case have I ever had to adjust a laptop for that.
- abrugsch 8y ago
  there's definitely a steeper muscle learning curve with a trackpoint but once you get past it they are fantastic to use. I find accuracy higher and less of a jarring transition from typing to mousing. if you get one again, I suggest persevering (it took trying to play populous 3 on my dad's laptop Back in the day to convince me that a trackpoint was the way forward. I pushed through the mental barrier and found that P3 was an order of magnitude easier to play on a trackpoint than a touchpad) since then i've been a convert and actively stipulated that my last laptop HAVE a trackpoint. So I bought a thinkpad after having/hating a macbook for a while.
innocentoldguy 8y ago
It's nice to see a differing point of view. For me, Trackpoints are the number one reason I don't buy Thinkpads. I cannot stand those things. Trackpads, especially those on Mac products, have a lot more functionality.
- bluedino 8y ago
  Couldn’t you just remove it?
  - ladberg 8y ago
    Not OP, but I've felt that Thinkpads all have terrible (and even sometimes nonexistent) trackpads which force the user to use the nub. I'm wayyy more efficient with a decent (usually Mac, but I've occasionally had good experiences on other laptops too) trackpad than a bad trackpad, nub, or even mouse sometimes (it takes time to move my hand between the mouse and keyboard, which is negligible on a laptop with trackpad).
  - innocentoldguy 8y ago
    If you remove the rubber nub, you still have a little plastic joystick poking out of the center of your keyboard. Also, the trackpads on Thinkpads are pretty worthless when compared to offerings by other manufacturers.
    - lorenzhs 8y ago
      They certainly used to be pretty worthless, but some two years ago Lenovo seems to have realised that. Being firmly on team trackpoint, I don’t use it personally, but my X1 Carbon (2017) has a nice feeling large trackpad that I’ve heard many good things about.
      - kkarakk 8y ago
        i think it was actually microsoft that started pushing OEMs towards better touchpads with it's surface touchpad certification program. any laptop with those is pretty comparable to a mac touchpad...
fermentation 8y ago
The trackpoint on my x220 was very convenient, but it really hurt my fingers.
- kristopolous 8y ago
  You need to edit the sensitivity, on Linux this is done with synclient. The defaults can be ridiculous and absurdly bad. They quite arguably aren't right for anyone on the planet... Don't know why it ships like that (baseline usability shouldn't necessitate customization). Also there's different concavity nibbles and people have very religious-like preferences for one style over another so I won't disclose my persuasion ... There's really really cheap variety packs to find out yours (like < $3 shipped)
  - mncharity 8y ago
    > need to edit the sensitivity, on Linux this is done with synclient Default TrackPoint handling is now libinput (as of 2017?) And regrettably, this regressed acceleration profile editing on older TrackPoint hardware. Apparently it was diverse and buggy, and libinput developer resources are limited, so older ThinkPads may need to update their firmware, or are simply wontfix. When your TrackPoint has a good acceleration profile, it can be magical. When not, it feels like you're fighting the stick, and stressing your finger. I have one of each, so going back on forth, I get both "oh, wow, this is awesome!" and "yipes, this awful". TrackPoint seems an odd case. Laptop hardware not working on linux is a familiar thing. But unless you know what you're missing, you may not recognize a severely-suboptimally configured TrackPoint. And without customization, your default TrackPoint experience can be really bad.
emerongi 8y ago
I have a ThinkPad bluetooth keyboard[0] for this reason. I don't use a mouse anymore - the trackpoint is super convenient when programming. [0] https://www.amazon.com/ThinkPad-Compact-Bluetooth-Keyboard-TrackPoint/dp/B00C32FWJC https://www.amazon.com/ThinkPad-Compact-Bluetooth-Keyboard-T...
sethish 8y ago
I got a mechanical keyboard without a trackpoint after requiring one for many years. I was worried about using a trackpad or mouse, but I tried out mousekeys and am very happy with the result.
- twoquestions 8y ago
  Just got started using mousekeys thanks to your comment, and I like 'em thus far. I can't do as precise of movements as I can with a mouse yet, but it is nice to not have to switch to the mouse, and it doesn't hurt my wrist as much to use.
SirHound 8y ago
Gestures?

by pintxo 8y ago

elyobo 8y ago

Figuring out how to disable that damn thing was my top priority when I had a thinkpad. Maybe I should have stuck with it, but it was just an annoying thing that was impossible to control and easily knocked to where I didn't want it to be (a problem when input focus is mouse based rather than foreground app based). So this looks interesting to me... but possibly suffers from the same problem of inadvertent activation.

pintxo 8y ago
It is the other way around for me, I always disable the track pad, as I else will randomly move the cursor while typing, which is really annoying.
- elyobo 8y ago
  Yeah, I have tweaked the settings on them before; they generally have a sort of palm detection that prevents them from misfiring which works pretty well for me - only in one case have I ever had to adjust a laptop for that.
abrugsch 8y ago
there's definitely a steeper muscle learning curve with a trackpoint but once you get past it they are fantastic to use. I find accuracy higher and less of a jarring transition from typing to mousing. if you get one again, I suggest persevering (it took trying to play populous 3 on my dad's laptop Back in the day to convince me that a trackpoint was the way forward. I pushed through the mental barrier and found that P3 was an order of magnitude easier to play on a trackpoint than a touchpad) since then i've been a convert and actively stipulated that my last laptop HAVE a trackpoint. So I bought a thinkpad after having/hating a macbook for a while.

innocentoldguy 8y ago

It's nice to see a differing point of view. For me, Trackpoints are the number one reason I don't buy Thinkpads. I cannot stand those things. Trackpads, especially those on Mac products, have a lot more functionality.

bluedino 8y ago
Couldn’t you just remove it?
- ladberg 8y ago
  Not OP, but I've felt that Thinkpads all have terrible (and even sometimes nonexistent) trackpads which force the user to use the nub. I'm wayyy more efficient with a decent (usually Mac, but I've occasionally had good experiences on other laptops too) trackpad than a bad trackpad, nub, or even mouse sometimes (it takes time to move my hand between the mouse and keyboard, which is negligible on a laptop with trackpad).
- innocentoldguy 8y ago
  If you remove the rubber nub, you still have a little plastic joystick poking out of the center of your keyboard. Also, the trackpads on Thinkpads are pretty worthless when compared to offerings by other manufacturers.
  - lorenzhs 8y ago
    They certainly used to be pretty worthless, but some two years ago Lenovo seems to have realised that. Being firmly on team trackpoint, I don’t use it personally, but my X1 Carbon (2017) has a nice feeling large trackpad that I’ve heard many good things about.
    - kkarakk 8y ago
      i think it was actually microsoft that started pushing OEMs towards better touchpads with it's surface touchpad certification program. any laptop with those is pretty comparable to a mac touchpad...

fermentation 8y ago

The trackpoint on my x220 was very convenient, but it really hurt my fingers.

kristopolous 8y ago
You need to edit the sensitivity, on Linux this is done with synclient. The defaults can be ridiculous and absurdly bad. They quite arguably aren't right for anyone on the planet... Don't know why it ships like that (baseline usability shouldn't necessitate customization). Also there's different concavity nibbles and people have very religious-like preferences for one style over another so I won't disclose my persuasion ... There's really really cheap variety packs to find out yours (like < $3 shipped)
- mncharity 8y ago
  > need to edit the sensitivity, on Linux this is done with synclient Default TrackPoint handling is now libinput (as of 2017?) And regrettably, this regressed acceleration profile editing on older TrackPoint hardware. Apparently it was diverse and buggy, and libinput developer resources are limited, so older ThinkPads may need to update their firmware, or are simply wontfix. When your TrackPoint has a good acceleration profile, it can be magical. When not, it feels like you're fighting the stick, and stressing your finger. I have one of each, so going back on forth, I get both "oh, wow, this is awesome!" and "yipes, this awful". TrackPoint seems an odd case. Laptop hardware not working on linux is a familiar thing. But unless you know what you're missing, you may not recognize a severely-suboptimally configured TrackPoint. And without customization, your default TrackPoint experience can be really bad.

emerongi 8y ago

I have a ThinkPad bluetooth keyboard[0] for this reason. I don't use a mouse anymore - the trackpoint is super convenient when programming. [0] https://www.amazon.com/ThinkPad-Compact-Bluetooth-Keyboard-TrackPoint/dp/B00C32FWJC https://www.amazon.com/ThinkPad-Compact-Bluetooth-Keyboard-T...

sethish 8y ago

I got a mechanical keyboard without a trackpoint after requiring one for many years. I was worried about using a trackpad or mouse, but I tried out mousekeys and am very happy with the result.

twoquestions 8y ago
Just got started using mousekeys thanks to your comment, and I like 'em thus far. I can't do as precise of movements as I can with a mouse yet, but it is nice to not have to switch to the mouse, and it doesn't hurt my wrist as much to use.

SirHound 8y ago

Gestures?