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>How big is Estonia? Are you saying that it's small enough that you can sway the election by threatening to beat up every voter? That's a brave claim. >As fa

>How big is Estonia? Are you saying that it's small enough that you can sway the election by threatening to beat up every voter? That's a brave claim. >As far as the political will to come down on people for vote buying or intimidation etc. I'm sure that making things illegal when there is a profit to be made at doing it has always succeeded in driving that illegal thing out of existence without any untoward effect on society whatsoever. there is ZERO profit to be made in vote buying if you are thrown in prison after purchasing your 9th vote. You'd have to be enormously stupid to even try. that's why vote buying doesn't exist. that's why it's not like drugs. It's not because you "can't tell people" who you voted for. It's because it's trivial to detect, easy to crack down on and there's nothing to be gained by risking it. The only time when there was something to be gained by doing it, it was because it was COMPLETELY LEGAL. Let me repeat that: the only time in history it was ever a problem, it was because it was LEGAL. I want proof that my vote counted because that helps protect against the kind of threats which DON'T disappear just because they're made illegal. I don't need people like you telling me that I'm not responsible enough to get proof because I might sell it.

bryanrasmussen 8y ago
>Are you saying that it's small enough that you can sway the >election by threatening to beat up every voter? >That's a brave claim. No, generally the way it works is letting the word get out that if people vote for X you will come kick their ass later. For example if go beat up vocal supporters of X before the election and shout we're going to kill you if you vote for X, we know who votes for who because our hackers can see it online fools. Then people might be, oh I don't want anyone coming by my house and kicking my ass after X wins. So I will either not vote, or I will vote for Y so I don't get my ass kicked or even killed, sob. If we think you voted for X and we come by your house you better be able to convince us you voted for Y! That actually scales pretty good because you only have to publicly hurt a few people before the election, and then hurt a few people after the election if X actually loses so the next election people will be well I better vote for Y and prove I did it. And people now have to actually vote for Y and show they did. For example, take the following paper into consideration https://www.aisre.it/images/old_papers/MafiaViolence_Oli&Sbe.pdf https://www.aisre.it/images/old_papers/MafiaViolence_Oli&Sbe... and then think, huh what would it be like if they could tell who voted for whom? I mean the thing you're saying about the only time people ever bought votes was when it was completely legal, maybe that was true - was it also possible to prove who you voted for? I mean I don't know what you are actually referencing with your completely legal vote buying line but the implication that people would not buy votes to get power seems if it were illegal to do so seems incredibly silly given all the other illegal things people do to get power.

bryanrasmussen 8y ago

>Are you saying that it's small enough that you can sway the >election by threatening to beat up every voter? >That's a brave claim. No, generally the way it works is letting the word get out that if people vote for X you will come kick their ass later. For example if go beat up vocal supporters of X before the election and shout we're going to kill you if you vote for X, we know who votes for who because our hackers can see it online fools. Then people might be, oh I don't want anyone coming by my house and kicking my ass after X wins. So I will either not vote, or I will vote for Y so I don't get my ass kicked or even killed, sob. If we think you voted for X and we come by your house you better be able to convince us you voted for Y! That actually scales pretty good because you only have to publicly hurt a few people before the election, and then hurt a few people after the election if X actually loses so the next election people will be well I better vote for Y and prove I did it. And people now have to actually vote for Y and show they did. For example, take the following paper into consideration https://www.aisre.it/images/old_papers/MafiaViolence_Oli&Sbe.pdf https://www.aisre.it/images/old_papers/MafiaViolence_Oli&Sbe... and then think, huh what would it be like if they could tell who voted for whom? I mean the thing you're saying about the only time people ever bought votes was when it was completely legal, maybe that was true - was it also possible to prove who you voted for? I mean I don't know what you are actually referencing with your completely legal vote buying line but the implication that people would not buy votes to get power seems if it were illegal to do so seems incredibly silly given all the other illegal things people do to get power.