7 ms·

The GP said > _It's just easier to be an immigrant or hyphenated-American in world class metro areas that can support a variety of ethnic and cultural clusteri

The GP said > _It's just easier to be an immigrant or hyphenated-American in world class metro areas that can support a variety of ethnic and cultural clustering._ The fact that there aren't as many african-americans in the bay area (outside of a handful of locales), doesn't make the GP's point invalid. I'm an immigrant in SF, and there are few places in the US where I would feel remotely as comfortable. Even being "white" (latin american of southern european ascent) I have a noticeable accent. That accent has triggered abuse by an elderly woman right after the past presidential elections in an ice cream shop in Hayes Valley, SF. And that is without going into the countless cases of "involuntary micro-agressions" ("oh, we don't mean you guys", "you're one of the good ones", etc.). Outside of the bay area the landscape very quickly changes to white picket fences with two large pick up trucks and white crosses in the lawn, towns with multiple churches of different christian denominations. All of this within an hour of driving from SF. I wouldn't feel at home, and likely not be accepted as part of the community in places like this. Because there are so many immigrants in the bay area, that gives exposure to the native-born citizenry making them less likely to treat immigrants like the feared "other", as well as immigrants treating other immigrants of different origin decently, for the most part. I think these points are what the GP was referring to. The problem of lack of systematic racism and unequal opportunities for african-americans are still a big problem in the US as a whole, and in the bay area as well, but that doesn't immediately affects the entirety of the immigrant population.

burfog 8y ago
FYI, in SF there are also multiple churches of different christian denominations. Most of them will welcome you, doing their best to make you feel at home and accepted as part of the community. It works best if you don't treat them like the feared "other".
- estebank 8y ago
  I did not intend to needlessly bash on religion in general, but seeing (what felt to me like) a dozen churches in a town of <500 inhabitants was very surprising.
BurningFrog 8y ago
You're comparing SF to rural America. They're of course quite different. But OP is asking about other major cities like Atlanta, Boston, Chicago etc. If you think those are anti immigrant racist homophobic etc hellholes, you might be stereotyping quite a bit yourself :)
- killerdhmo 8y ago
  Or you haven’t lived in Boston, or Chicago — both cities facing major racial integration problems in the modern day
  - kgwgk 8y ago
    Unlike LA?
  - thousandautumns 8y ago
    Not problems that San Francisco isn't also having. People like to prop up SF as an example of inclusiveness, as if it isn't the pinnacle of gentrification. Things may feel inclusive if you are white/asian and working in tech. Ask a black or hispanic person if they feel like SF is a land of opportunity or inclusiveness. And the rest of California is just as bad. LA somehow has a reputation for inclusiveness despite being home to some of the most serious racial conflicts and explosions of racial violence in the last century. That California is somehow radically more inclusive than the rest of the country is a myth, but one they are exploiting very well.
- JabavuAdams 8y ago
  Compared to Toronto, Canada, they kind of are though.
- jayd16 8y ago
  If you think Chicago doesn't have clear and well known racial conflict you've never driven across the city. SF and California is certainly not perfect but it tries to be better.
  - 8y ago
chrisco255 8y ago
OP was talking about major metro areas and the cities I mentioned are major metros with all the pros and cons that implies. At any rate, you should really try exploring and getting outside of the Silicon Valley bubble if you think the rest of the U.S. is just a bunch of racists ready to shout offensive things to you. Even in rural areas in Texas and Florida, big portions of the population are Hispanic. It's not unusual at all. In many Texas honky tonks, you'll find quite a few Hispanics. Some of the top rodeo stars are Mexican and Brazilian. In fact, most of Southwestern culture, from cuisine to music to dance to fashion, is a blend of cultural elements from Mexican, German, Czech, and Pole immigrants.
- estebank 8y ago
  So far, the place I've been shouted/told offensive things by have been in the bay area for the most part, but it might also be because I'm "white". I realize now that when I said "outside of the bay area" I didn't make it clear that I was talking about California in particular. People from outside the US, and even some inside the US too, have this image of California that is a pastiche of cliches, where the Golden Gate bridge is next to Venice Beach and the Central Valley doesn't exist. I've travelled throughout many rural areas in the US and have been treated in a lovely way. I remember a recent trip where my wife and I stopped for a quick snack in a rural bar, where we struck a conversation with the people working there were lovely. At the same time, on the walls there were plenty of "american patriot" paraphernalia in the vein of "we say merry christmas here, and if that offends you fuck you". That makes it harder to feel welcomed.
  - rayiner 8y ago
    > At the same time, on the walls there were plenty of "american patriot" paraphernalia in the vein of "we say merry christmas here, and if that offends you fuck you". That makes it harder to feel welcomed. Why should that make you feel unwelcome? I'm also an immigrant, and have spent a decent amount of time in rural America, and my point of view is that it's wrong to hold Americans to a different standard than you would people from whatever country you're from. My family is from Bangladesh. If there were people going around trying to remove "Eid Mubarak" from the public discourse, there would be a total shit storm. 90% of Americans celebrate Christmas--tolerance for immigrants does not mean that people don't get to publicly celebrate their own culture, their religious traditions, etc.
JabavuAdams 8y ago
Interesting perspective. I've often been tempted to work in the US, but one factor that always deterred me was the treatment of African Americans. I've generally had a very good time as a business traveller. I'm half-white and from a privileged background, so it's never been a question of access or belonging -- I've found the tech industry very welcoming. It's more one of personal safety and general disgust at how the US has never really tackled the legacy of slavery. I also find the US bone-deep assumption that "we're the best" extremely irritating -- kind of epitomized by the opening portions of this article only considering US locations.
- estebank 8y ago
  I understand where you're coming from, but I do not intend to imply that the US or the bay area in particular are not a nice place to live. If anything, I'd find it hard to adapt to most other places, having had some of my prior personal positions jolted by points of view that I hadn't ever considered. Most people are I interact with are lovely and open minded. The scars of institutional racism are very noticeable and are uncomfortable to me, and it makes it hard to comment on some subjects when presenting a perspective that to you might look obvious (due to having seen alternatives) that go counter to the general accepted "narrative". Living in the US has been very rewarding and a good experience overall, to the point where I'd say it's the place I'd like to stay in, but no place is without trade-offs.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
thousandautumns 8y ago
No offense, but the perception of the US outside of the "diversity bastions" like SF, NYC, LA, etc. has jumped the shark. People now assume that racism and hatred is rampant outside these areas, and it isn't remotely the case. Its actually quite sad and offensive (to say nothing of ironic) that such a large swath of people are at this point all but presumed to be racist until proven otherwise. To be fair to you, the perception seems to be widespread among residents of the aforementioned mega-cities, as well as non-Americans, and is fueled by the popular media. But I would encourage you to view the idea that these parts of America are backwards and largely bigoted with the same amount of skepticism you would to anyone making sweeping claims about the supposed deficiencies of a group of "others".
- estebank 8y ago
  I never claimed that a large swath of people are racist and live in backwater, but I seem to have implied it by using a few apparently cliched critiques that carry connotations beyond what I intended. The thesis of my original comment is "foreigners are more likely to feel at home where other foreigners live" in the US, and posited some of the possible reasons. SF and other cities where the immigrant community is very visible aren't prejudice free, but you're less likely to be prejudiced against for being foreign, and even then it does happen. Also, there doesn't need to be a majority or even a plurality of people with racist views in an area for people that are the target of those prejudiced views to feel unwelcome. I was divorcing this from the larger discussion that the US has around diversity.

burfog 8y ago

FYI, in SF there are also multiple churches of different christian denominations. Most of them will welcome you, doing their best to make you feel at home and accepted as part of the community. It works best if you don't treat them like the feared "other".

estebank 8y ago
I did not intend to needlessly bash on religion in general, but seeing (what felt to me like) a dozen churches in a town of <500 inhabitants was very surprising.

BurningFrog 8y ago

You're comparing SF to rural America. They're of course quite different. But OP is asking about other major cities like Atlanta, Boston, Chicago etc. If you think those are anti immigrant racist homophobic etc hellholes, you might be stereotyping quite a bit yourself :)

killerdhmo 8y ago
Or you haven’t lived in Boston, or Chicago — both cities facing major racial integration problems in the modern day
- kgwgk 8y ago
  Unlike LA?
- thousandautumns 8y ago
  Not problems that San Francisco isn't also having. People like to prop up SF as an example of inclusiveness, as if it isn't the pinnacle of gentrification. Things may feel inclusive if you are white/asian and working in tech. Ask a black or hispanic person if they feel like SF is a land of opportunity or inclusiveness. And the rest of California is just as bad. LA somehow has a reputation for inclusiveness despite being home to some of the most serious racial conflicts and explosions of racial violence in the last century. That California is somehow radically more inclusive than the rest of the country is a myth, but one they are exploiting very well.
JabavuAdams 8y ago
Compared to Toronto, Canada, they kind of are though.
jayd16 8y ago
If you think Chicago doesn't have clear and well known racial conflict you've never driven across the city. SF and California is certainly not perfect but it tries to be better.
- 8y ago

chrisco255 8y ago

OP was talking about major metro areas and the cities I mentioned are major metros with all the pros and cons that implies. At any rate, you should really try exploring and getting outside of the Silicon Valley bubble if you think the rest of the U.S. is just a bunch of racists ready to shout offensive things to you. Even in rural areas in Texas and Florida, big portions of the population are Hispanic. It's not unusual at all. In many Texas honky tonks, you'll find quite a few Hispanics. Some of the top rodeo stars are Mexican and Brazilian. In fact, most of Southwestern culture, from cuisine to music to dance to fashion, is a blend of cultural elements from Mexican, German, Czech, and Pole immigrants.

estebank 8y ago
So far, the place I've been shouted/told offensive things by have been in the bay area for the most part, but it might also be because I'm "white". I realize now that when I said "outside of the bay area" I didn't make it clear that I was talking about California in particular. People from outside the US, and even some inside the US too, have this image of California that is a pastiche of cliches, where the Golden Gate bridge is next to Venice Beach and the Central Valley doesn't exist. I've travelled throughout many rural areas in the US and have been treated in a lovely way. I remember a recent trip where my wife and I stopped for a quick snack in a rural bar, where we struck a conversation with the people working there were lovely. At the same time, on the walls there were plenty of "american patriot" paraphernalia in the vein of "we say merry christmas here, and if that offends you fuck you". That makes it harder to feel welcomed.
- rayiner 8y ago
  > At the same time, on the walls there were plenty of "american patriot" paraphernalia in the vein of "we say merry christmas here, and if that offends you fuck you". That makes it harder to feel welcomed. Why should that make you feel unwelcome? I'm also an immigrant, and have spent a decent amount of time in rural America, and my point of view is that it's wrong to hold Americans to a different standard than you would people from whatever country you're from. My family is from Bangladesh. If there were people going around trying to remove "Eid Mubarak" from the public discourse, there would be a total shit storm. 90% of Americans celebrate Christmas--tolerance for immigrants does not mean that people don't get to publicly celebrate their own culture, their religious traditions, etc.

JabavuAdams 8y ago

Interesting perspective. I've often been tempted to work in the US, but one factor that always deterred me was the treatment of African Americans. I've generally had a very good time as a business traveller. I'm half-white and from a privileged background, so it's never been a question of access or belonging -- I've found the tech industry very welcoming. It's more one of personal safety and general disgust at how the US has never really tackled the legacy of slavery. I also find the US bone-deep assumption that "we're the best" extremely irritating -- kind of epitomized by the opening portions of this article only considering US locations.

estebank 8y ago
I understand where you're coming from, but I do not intend to imply that the US or the bay area in particular are not a nice place to live. If anything, I'd find it hard to adapt to most other places, having had some of my prior personal positions jolted by points of view that I hadn't ever considered. Most people are I interact with are lovely and open minded. The scars of institutional racism are very noticeable and are uncomfortable to me, and it makes it hard to comment on some subjects when presenting a perspective that to you might look obvious (due to having seen alternatives) that go counter to the general accepted "narrative". Living in the US has been very rewarding and a good experience overall, to the point where I'd say it's the place I'd like to stay in, but no place is without trade-offs.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

thousandautumns 8y ago

No offense, but the perception of the US outside of the "diversity bastions" like SF, NYC, LA, etc. has jumped the shark. People now assume that racism and hatred is rampant outside these areas, and it isn't remotely the case. Its actually quite sad and offensive (to say nothing of ironic) that such a large swath of people are at this point all but presumed to be racist until proven otherwise. To be fair to you, the perception seems to be widespread among residents of the aforementioned mega-cities, as well as non-Americans, and is fueled by the popular media. But I would encourage you to view the idea that these parts of America are backwards and largely bigoted with the same amount of skepticism you would to anyone making sweeping claims about the supposed deficiencies of a group of "others".

estebank 8y ago
I never claimed that a large swath of people are racist and live in backwater, but I seem to have implied it by using a few apparently cliched critiques that carry connotations beyond what I intended. The thesis of my original comment is "foreigners are more likely to feel at home where other foreigners live" in the US, and posited some of the possible reasons. SF and other cities where the immigrant community is very visible aren't prejudice free, but you're less likely to be prejudiced against for being foreign, and even then it does happen. Also, there doesn't need to be a majority or even a plurality of people with racist views in an area for people that are the target of those prejudiced views to feel unwelcome. I was divorcing this from the larger discussion that the US has around diversity.