5 ms·

As someone who worked in this field for several years, and worked closely with EPA, the biggest problem is the politicization of funding for EPA. Year after yea

by willj 8y ago

As someone who worked in this field for several years, and worked closely with EPA, the biggest problem is the politicization of funding for EPA. Year after year its funding gets slashed, or at the very least stays the same and so is eroded by inflation. A 2013 report on state drinking water resources [1] showed that state drinking water programs continually do more with less, and are barely able to maintain their infrastructure as they have to dig into their emergency funds to do routine maintenance, which leaves them in a bind when a true emergency does happen, such as the rupture of a water main. The legislation in place is solid, scientifically-sound, and thoroughly vetted from a cost-benefit analysis side of things. The problem is lack of funding, and visibility into the issue. Apart from high-profile incidents of sickness and water main breaks, people just assume their tap generates clean drinking water and give no thought to where it comes from, or the work that is required to make it happen. I wish people would think to what life must have been like in the 18th century, and how difficult it must've been to secure clean drinking water. The idea of having clean drinking water coming into your house via tap would've been a pipe dream (pun not intended), and a luxury only the most rich could afford. And now it's shunned in some crowds. The bottled water crowd thinks they're immune to these issues around drinking water systems, but in fact the bottled water companies generally get their water from the same public drinking water systems we use, and their standards are in fact lower than those surrounding your tap water (as it's policed by the FDA, not the EPA). All that said, we have amazing tap water in this country, and it is a testament to the people and agencies responsible for making that happen. I lived in Asia for over a year, and coming back to a country where I can drink what comes out of the tap, use it to brush my teeth, and not worry about getting it in my mouth while showering really puts things in perspective. [1] (pdf) https://www.asdwa.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/SRNAP-Analysis.pdf https://www.asdwa.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/SRNAP-Analy...

jhoechtl 8y ago
The biggest problem is that water is treated as a commercial good instead as a public good the government should take care of. In those parts of Europe where water has been privatized prices rose and quality went down.
- rayiner 8y ago
  Exactly the opposite of that is true. All these failing water systems are public, operated by municipal utilities and regulated by the EPA. Private water companies are extremely uncommon in the US; over 90% of Americans get their water from a public utility, while most of the rest are on private wells.
  - zzzcpan 8y ago
    No, still not the opposite. If you only have public water systems than only public water systems can fail. Private water companies don't even make sense, as they can only exist as monopolies with the only incentive of squeezing as much profit as possible forever, pushing boundaries on water and service quality to pocket more money, lobbying for weakening of quality standards, etc. It cannot possibly be cheaper and better than fixing regional quality problems through very competitive water filtering market individually (you do know how cheap filtering systems actually are today?).
    - jcranmer 8y ago
      > Private water companies don't even make sense, as they can only exist as monopolies with the only incentive of squeezing as much profit as possible forever, pushing boundaries on water and service quality to pocket more money, lobbying for weakening of quality standards, etc. That's not true. Public water can be just as bad as private water, as you can get turf wars and projects motivated to spend money for the sake of spending money in the public sector more easily than in the public sector. A private water company can be more efficient in sharing backoffice tasks (such as billing) or achieving an economy of scale. What really matters is not the distinction between public and private, but rather the quality and nature of the oversight.
  - Tsubasachan 8y ago
    How can an important public utility like water fail? You would think its the most important thing to be funded. The US has a trillion dollar deficit and I sometimes wonder were the hell its all going to.
quakeguy 8y ago
„The bottled water crowd thinks they're immune to these issues around drinking water systems, but in fact the bottled water companies generally get their water from the same public drinking water systems we use, and their standards are in fact lower than those surrounding your tap water (as it's policed by the FDA, not the EPA).„ Excuse my choice of words here, but wtf. I always thought water in bottled units is held to a higher standard.
- pkaye 8y ago
  For bottled water that goes through reverse osmosis and carbon filtration, many of the common contaminants in tap water would be removed. Also the bottling might happen in areas with better quality water.
  - ska 8y ago
    It's probably less important what might have happened, that what is required by law. If I recall correctly some bottled water is basically just bottling the municipal supply (i.e. no additional treatment or filtration). I don't really use bottled water, being lucky in where I live (and filtering). Does anyone know how much enforced transparency there is on the industry? In other words, can I in practice find out what processes they have applied or not to particular water, especially if the company has multiple plants ?
- Gibbon1 8y ago
  > I always thought water in bottled units is held to a higher standard. When I see people drinking bottled water I think 'enjoy your BPA dude'
- bsanr2 8y ago
  If I may be blunt: turns out, well-off people aren't immune to BS marketing.
- mcv 8y ago
  Depends on where you live. If tap water is of poor quality, bottled water is most likely better, and there are still many countries in the world where tap water is not really suitable for drinking. But in countries that prioritise clean tap water, it's considered a fundamental right and a public health issue, and tap water is often held to a higher standard than bottled water, which is more of a luxury product than an essential.
mcv 8y ago
You'd think people would have woken up to this after Flint. Flint is what you get if a city keeps cutting corners on drinking water infrastructure. Clean drinking water should be considered a fundamental right in any country able to supply it, and it should be immune to political games. (I'm glad to live in a country where this is not an issue; Amsterdam has the best drinking water in the world.)
devinplatt 8y ago
Hi willj. I just wanted to thank you for making this comment. I found it informative and well written. I'm always looking for sources and topics for my wiki, and I added a page inspired by your comment: https://www.wikiclaim.org/index.php?title=U.S._state_drinking_water_programs_are_underfunded https://www.wikiclaim.org/index.php?title=U.S._state_drinkin... I'll will continue to investigate some of your other statements for additions to the wiki. Best, Devin

by willj 8y ago

jhoechtl 8y ago

The biggest problem is that water is treated as a commercial good instead as a public good the government should take care of. In those parts of Europe where water has been privatized prices rose and quality went down.

rayiner 8y ago
Exactly the opposite of that is true. All these failing water systems are public, operated by municipal utilities and regulated by the EPA. Private water companies are extremely uncommon in the US; over 90% of Americans get their water from a public utility, while most of the rest are on private wells.
- zzzcpan 8y ago
  No, still not the opposite. If you only have public water systems than only public water systems can fail. Private water companies don't even make sense, as they can only exist as monopolies with the only incentive of squeezing as much profit as possible forever, pushing boundaries on water and service quality to pocket more money, lobbying for weakening of quality standards, etc. It cannot possibly be cheaper and better than fixing regional quality problems through very competitive water filtering market individually (you do know how cheap filtering systems actually are today?).
  - jcranmer 8y ago
    > Private water companies don't even make sense, as they can only exist as monopolies with the only incentive of squeezing as much profit as possible forever, pushing boundaries on water and service quality to pocket more money, lobbying for weakening of quality standards, etc. That's not true. Public water can be just as bad as private water, as you can get turf wars and projects motivated to spend money for the sake of spending money in the public sector more easily than in the public sector. A private water company can be more efficient in sharing backoffice tasks (such as billing) or achieving an economy of scale. What really matters is not the distinction between public and private, but rather the quality and nature of the oversight.
- Tsubasachan 8y ago
  How can an important public utility like water fail? You would think its the most important thing to be funded. The US has a trillion dollar deficit and I sometimes wonder were the hell its all going to.

quakeguy 8y ago

„The bottled water crowd thinks they're immune to these issues around drinking water systems, but in fact the bottled water companies generally get their water from the same public drinking water systems we use, and their standards are in fact lower than those surrounding your tap water (as it's policed by the FDA, not the EPA).„ Excuse my choice of words here, but wtf. I always thought water in bottled units is held to a higher standard.

pkaye 8y ago
For bottled water that goes through reverse osmosis and carbon filtration, many of the common contaminants in tap water would be removed. Also the bottling might happen in areas with better quality water.
- ska 8y ago
  It's probably less important what might have happened, that what is required by law. If I recall correctly some bottled water is basically just bottling the municipal supply (i.e. no additional treatment or filtration). I don't really use bottled water, being lucky in where I live (and filtering). Does anyone know how much enforced transparency there is on the industry? In other words, can I in practice find out what processes they have applied or not to particular water, especially if the company has multiple plants ?
Gibbon1 8y ago
> I always thought water in bottled units is held to a higher standard. When I see people drinking bottled water I think 'enjoy your BPA dude'
bsanr2 8y ago
If I may be blunt: turns out, well-off people aren't immune to BS marketing.
mcv 8y ago
Depends on where you live. If tap water is of poor quality, bottled water is most likely better, and there are still many countries in the world where tap water is not really suitable for drinking. But in countries that prioritise clean tap water, it's considered a fundamental right and a public health issue, and tap water is often held to a higher standard than bottled water, which is more of a luxury product than an essential.

mcv 8y ago

You'd think people would have woken up to this after Flint. Flint is what you get if a city keeps cutting corners on drinking water infrastructure. Clean drinking water should be considered a fundamental right in any country able to supply it, and it should be immune to political games. (I'm glad to live in a country where this is not an issue; Amsterdam has the best drinking water in the world.)

devinplatt 8y ago

Hi willj. I just wanted to thank you for making this comment. I found it informative and well written. I'm always looking for sources and topics for my wiki, and I added a page inspired by your comment: https://www.wikiclaim.org/index.php?title=U.S._state_drinking_water_programs_are_underfunded https://www.wikiclaim.org/index.php?title=U.S._state_drinkin... I'll will continue to investigate some of your other statements for additions to the wiki. Best, Devin