5 ms·

> They worry that a lack of familiarity with a topic, or an unthinking word choice What topic? What word choice? My point stands.

AlexTWithBeard 8y ago
The article is talking about people using political correctness to bully others. A specific choice of topic and words is not important here.
- tomlock 8y ago
  Oh but it is, if a choice of words determines if someone is being bullied or not.
  - AlexTWithBeard 8y ago
    That's exactly the point: a choice of words should not lead to bullying.
    - tomlock 8y ago
      That's not the point the article is making.
  - nkurz 8y ago
    I think you are right that few people self-describe as "politically correct". Could you suggest a short alternative phrase that would improve Hanson's article? Or do you feel that word-choice aside, the referent itself does not exist?
    - tomlock 8y ago
      Political correctness, as a phrase, does not adequately convey meaning in the same way "common sense" does not.
      - nkurz 8y ago
        OK, let's accept that. What's a better phrase that Hanson could use instead, and while still making the same general argument? I agree that "political correctness" is pejorative, but I also think there is some real underlying phenomenon that Hanson is pointing at. What's a less charged term that he can use to better convey his point without creating unnecessary offense?
        tomlock 8y ago
        Perhaps the author could just describe the underlying "real" phenomena. Do you really feel like the author is incapable of doing that? Why?
        nkurz 8y ago
        I think the author describes it well, and makes quite clear that he is using Yascha Mounck's definition from a recent article in the Atlantic: "What people mean by “political correctness.” … [is] their day-to-day ability to express themselves: They worry that a lack of familiarity with a topic, or an unthinking word choice, could lead to serious social sanctions for them. (quotes, ellipses and brackets in original) He then links to the full piece that contains this definition: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/large-majorities-dislike-political-correctness/572581/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/large-majo.... To write an article about this concept, he needs some short phrase. My guess was that the issue you had with the article was not a lack of clarity, rather a lack of charity. Like "Social Justice Warrior", or "cultural Marxism", or other terms that people use predominately to refer to ideologies they disagree with, calling it "political correctness" makes it hard to to have a productive discussion with anyone who doesn't already agree. As someone who seems to take offense to the current phrase, I was hoping you might be able to suggest a less offensive alternative that would be equally clear.
        tomlock 8y ago
        > To write an article about this concept, he needs some short phrase. Really? Perhaps the author could have dispensed with the use of the term altogether and just talked about... > their day-to-day ability to express themselves: They worry that a lack of familiarity with a topic, or an unthinking word choice, could lead to serious social sanctions for them. ...and then referred to that as "their concern". But I think the author deliberately reached for the vague, inflammatory and loaded, but convenient name. I think it is simpler to ascribe this to a lack of desire to have a genuine conversation, than a lack of reader charity. Perhaps if the author was attempting to provoke genuine discussion, that attempt would be clear in their choice of words. I'm not particularly keen to write this article for the author in a clearer manner than the one they managed.
  - aperrien 8y ago
    I believe that most of this can be solved with better concept of respect. For myself, I choose not to use words that needlessly incite fear in others, or words that create an environment that makes them fear for their safety, or also needlessly and knowingly makes them feel bad about themselves. It does seem that respect is lacking more and more these days.

AlexTWithBeard 8y ago

The article is talking about people using political correctness to bully others. A specific choice of topic and words is not important here.

tomlock 8y ago
Oh but it is, if a choice of words determines if someone is being bullied or not.
- AlexTWithBeard 8y ago
  That's exactly the point: a choice of words should not lead to bullying.
  - tomlock 8y ago
    That's not the point the article is making.
- nkurz 8y ago
  I think you are right that few people self-describe as "politically correct". Could you suggest a short alternative phrase that would improve Hanson's article? Or do you feel that word-choice aside, the referent itself does not exist?
  - tomlock 8y ago
    Political correctness, as a phrase, does not adequately convey meaning in the same way "common sense" does not.
    - nkurz 8y ago
      OK, let's accept that. What's a better phrase that Hanson could use instead, and while still making the same general argument? I agree that "political correctness" is pejorative, but I also think there is some real underlying phenomenon that Hanson is pointing at. What's a less charged term that he can use to better convey his point without creating unnecessary offense?
      - tomlock 8y ago
        Perhaps the author could just describe the underlying "real" phenomena. Do you really feel like the author is incapable of doing that? Why?
        nkurz 8y ago
        I think the author describes it well, and makes quite clear that he is using Yascha Mounck's definition from a recent article in the Atlantic: "What people mean by “political correctness.” … [is] their day-to-day ability to express themselves: They worry that a lack of familiarity with a topic, or an unthinking word choice, could lead to serious social sanctions for them. (quotes, ellipses and brackets in original) He then links to the full piece that contains this definition: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/large-majorities-dislike-political-correctness/572581/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/large-majo.... To write an article about this concept, he needs some short phrase. My guess was that the issue you had with the article was not a lack of clarity, rather a lack of charity. Like "Social Justice Warrior", or "cultural Marxism", or other terms that people use predominately to refer to ideologies they disagree with, calling it "political correctness" makes it hard to to have a productive discussion with anyone who doesn't already agree. As someone who seems to take offense to the current phrase, I was hoping you might be able to suggest a less offensive alternative that would be equally clear.
        tomlock 8y ago
        > To write an article about this concept, he needs some short phrase. Really? Perhaps the author could have dispensed with the use of the term altogether and just talked about... > their day-to-day ability to express themselves: They worry that a lack of familiarity with a topic, or an unthinking word choice, could lead to serious social sanctions for them. ...and then referred to that as "their concern". But I think the author deliberately reached for the vague, inflammatory and loaded, but convenient name. I think it is simpler to ascribe this to a lack of desire to have a genuine conversation, than a lack of reader charity. Perhaps if the author was attempting to provoke genuine discussion, that attempt would be clear in their choice of words. I'm not particularly keen to write this article for the author in a clearer manner than the one they managed.
- aperrien 8y ago
  I believe that most of this can be solved with better concept of respect. For myself, I choose not to use words that needlessly incite fear in others, or words that create an environment that makes them fear for their safety, or also needlessly and knowingly makes them feel bad about themselves. It does seem that respect is lacking more and more these days.