10 ms·

Get too hot for use on a device like a leaf blower. Also would add non-negligible costs.

by crushcrashcrush 8y ago

ericd 8y ago
Would making them 4 stroke engines make them burn significantly cleaner?
- tantalor 8y ago
  Making them electric helps.
  - imglorp 8y ago
    I just switched to an electric mower. It cost about the same as an decent mower, is lighter weight, always starts, is plenty powerful, and has about 45 minutes of charge on a swappable battery. I could buy more batteries if I wanted more runtime. I can also swap that battery with other equipment like string trimmers. I've overhauled my last temperamental gas carb. The end of gas lawn gear is indeed in sight.
    - foobarian 8y ago
      I just switched to all electric lawn tools. I got the trimmer, chainsaw, and blower from the 80v Kobalt line. Like you say, plenty of power, much easier maintenance, and multiple batteries mean the runtime is not limited.
      - pnw_hazor 8y ago
        I dunno. My Sears lawn mower has lasted us 19 years so far with no maintenance except blade sharpening. And, one spark plug replacement. I don't think you can find batteries that will last that long.
    - creato 8y ago
      I think electric only makes sense for individuals that use these tools once a day at most. Running a lawn maintenance business on electric tools would probably be far more expensive and logistics-heavy.
      - sjwright 8y ago
        For now you’d probably be right in some cases but not all. It’s certainly on the cusp of changing. A petrol lawnmower still wins for long runtimes, though even that can be mitigated by having multiple batteries. It’s fair to say the electric upsides are marginal with mowers. Whereas with hand tools like leaf blowers and line trimmers, the benefits are massive. Professional electric garden tools place the battery pack on a backpack so that the handheld component is light weight. They are quieter so no ear protection is needed, no sooty emissions so no face mask needed, and less vibration so it’s far less fatiguing for all-day use.
        jakobegger 8y ago
        You blow up a lot of dust with a leaf blower, so a face mask is probably a good idea regardless
        sjwright 8y ago
        Perhaps a good idea if you’re blowing all day but I rarely feel the need and I have dust & pollen allergies. Either way, with electric you’re not breathing in concentrated nitrous oxide and two-stroke oil soot. To deal with dust you’d only need a light and relatively comfortable fabric mask like they use in hospitals (or on Japanese public transport).
        marcotaves 8y ago
        so no ear protection is needed, no sooty emissions so no face mask needed, and less vibration so it’s far less fatiguing for all-day use all day use is A Worker! A stripped reflexive band collar, we call nowadays, blue with yeallow reflexive strips collar or orange with orange reflexive strips collars so... HOw come how can , how professional workers will give up all protection as you mention!!!??? face mask no, no ear protetction, no vibration protection yes? ... Seriously , Man!!! have you ever worked in a not-white collar office cubicle Job??? honestly!!! I just went to surf and i see there are very nice and even beautiful orange reflexive and at the same time led enlighted for night use and beautiful if you ask me and orangish light is calming and relaxing but you can See easily so I like it very much it is for dogs in this case but good for bikers too and blue collar with reflexive strips workers on night shift and for marking borders between city areas and trees parks of woods areas or little forest areas so animals humans and other animals instinctively know the separation for whateve knowledge they are concerned or have the free will to do with that... interesting and maybe need more attention is that I didnt see in Brazil or any other place but probably exists is the crossing arcs/passarelas for road crossing exclusevely for non human animals...that would be nice so small animals know the way to cross above the roads and maybe with the enlighted strips orangeish to see the good way, yeah... thanks
    - caleblloyd 8y ago
      I had a 40v electric mower with 5A battery for $350 new a few years ago. Battery life got shorter every run, the stopped working after 2 years, replaced under 3 year warranty. Second battery life continues to get shorter. New 5A batteries are $150. I had some 2A batteries from other lawn equipment but the mower eats through those in 10m, plus puts another charge cycle on them. I finally got feud up and got a Honda self-propelled gas mower for $400 that should last 10 years. I think battery mower is great for tiny lawns, say 0.1 acres or less. Anything bigger and li-ion tech is going to be too expensive over the years. Love the battery weedeacker and hedge trimmer though. The battery blower is great for blowing the porch or driveway, but for fall cleanup or gutters it's the same story; get a corded electric for that.
      - nate_meurer 8y ago
        That's frustrating. What brand was it? Maybe I've just been lucky, but I've had exactly the opposite experience. I've mowed a large lawn with a Li-ion battery-powered mower for four years and I can't detect any degradation in the batteries. Maybe you already know and do this, but I'll note that some basic battery temperature management will greatly prolong their life. Don't let them bake in the sun, don't store them or charge them in a hot garage, etc. On the other hand, all of the gas-powered mowers I've ever used, even really expensive ones, were heavy, fiddly, stinky, obnoxious things that eventually drove me to use a reel mower for a short time before I went electric. I do still have a gas-powered machine. It's a tiller with a four-stroke engine. It's new and high-quality, and it's a fucking pain in the ass. It's hard to start, loud, smells like shit when it's running and the fuel stinks up my garage. Unfortunately there are no electric tillers, but we'll get there some day.
        caleblloyd 8y ago
        It was a Kobalt. I think it may have been their first battery powered model. The Honda mower will evidently need maintenance (outside of oil and air filters which I can do) at some point too, but the nice thing is Northern Tool and Equipment has a shop and they are a Honda dealer, so they can fix it and have the Honda supply chain. Thing that sketched me out about the Kobalt is that once it fails or the battery is discontinued, you're on your own. I opened the battery up and it had 20x 4v cells but they were so tightly wired and glued that replacing all 20 would have been a pain in the ass, plus would've run around $80 for the cells. Tillers are another beast, you don't drive them around the yard, they drive you. At least in the North Carolina clay...
    - bzbarsky 8y ago
      Which mower did you end up getting, if I might ask?
      - imglorp 8y ago
        I got a mid-range Ryobi, because there is at least one string trimmer that uses the same power pack, and you can buy more of them. So far so good, but spring is coming so we'll see. maybe this one: https://www.homedepot.com/p/RYOBI-20-in-40-Volt-Brushless-Lithium-Ion-Cordless-Battery-Walk-Behind-Push-Lawn-Mower-5-0-Ah-Battery-Charger-Included-RY40180-Y/304597920 https://www.homedepot.com/p/RYOBI-20-in-40-Volt-Brushless-Li...
  - gwbas1c 8y ago
    I considered a battery leaf blower a few years ago. It was as powerful as the average gas leaf blower. The problem is that the batteries needed to sustain running the leaf blower at high speeds are very heavy. I just shlep a cord through my yard, but that would not work if leaf blowing was my profession
    - zdragnar 8y ago
      I picked up an 80v leaf blower, and it's a bit unbalanced but definitely not too heavy to use. It's definitely been one of my happier purchases as far as lawn and yard tools go.
- jakobegger 8y ago
  It would make them too heavy. Two stroke engines have a great power to weight ratio, which is pretty much the only reason that they are used.
  - burfog 8y ago
    It's fine. Even my weed trimmer is 4-stroke. Aircraft engines, which really need to have a great power to weight ratio, are normally 4-stroke. For small things, the only place that seems to justify 2-stroke is a chainsaw. This is partly because weight matters much more, and partly because a chainsaw is held at many different angles. Oil flow in a 4-stroke engine is difficult when you can't rely on gravity going in any particular direction. Given that the whole point of a leaf blower engine is to move air, I have to wonder if the best solution might be a turbine.
    - giardini 8y ago
      That's a great idea! Now if you'll just design an inexpensive turbine that won't fly apart catastrophically at 10,000-50,000 rpm, twist your hand off due to gyroscopic forces, and is easy-to-start w/o first spinning up to 5,000 rpm, we're set to go! Best bet: electric corded (120 Volts AC) leaf blowers: cheap, powerful, reliable, light and easy to maintain. No danger of battery fire/explosion due to abuse/age.
      - simcop2387 8y ago
        The startup issue might be mostly solved these days with cheap lithium batteries and brushless dc motors. That said you still have the turbine issue and the fact that it'll be much much louder.
  - ericd 8y ago
    Not sure I buy that it would be too heavy, especially in the case of the backpack models.
    - marcotaves 8y ago
- ip26 8y ago
  Yes! But 4-stroke engines have been having a hard time cracking the leaf blower & weed whacker markets. It would also not solve noise.
grecy 8y ago
> Also would add non-negligible costs. Well, yes. Doing things that are good for the environment and our health is going to cost more money than not doing those things.

Get too hot for use on a device like a leaf blower. Also would add non-negligible costs.

ericd 8y ago

Would making them 4 stroke engines make them burn significantly cleaner?

tantalor 8y ago
Making them electric helps.
- imglorp 8y ago
  I just switched to an electric mower. It cost about the same as an decent mower, is lighter weight, always starts, is plenty powerful, and has about 45 minutes of charge on a swappable battery. I could buy more batteries if I wanted more runtime. I can also swap that battery with other equipment like string trimmers. I've overhauled my last temperamental gas carb. The end of gas lawn gear is indeed in sight.
  - foobarian 8y ago
    I just switched to all electric lawn tools. I got the trimmer, chainsaw, and blower from the 80v Kobalt line. Like you say, plenty of power, much easier maintenance, and multiple batteries mean the runtime is not limited.
    - pnw_hazor 8y ago
      I dunno. My Sears lawn mower has lasted us 19 years so far with no maintenance except blade sharpening. And, one spark plug replacement. I don't think you can find batteries that will last that long.
  - creato 8y ago
    I think electric only makes sense for individuals that use these tools once a day at most. Running a lawn maintenance business on electric tools would probably be far more expensive and logistics-heavy.
    - sjwright 8y ago
      For now you’d probably be right in some cases but not all. It’s certainly on the cusp of changing. A petrol lawnmower still wins for long runtimes, though even that can be mitigated by having multiple batteries. It’s fair to say the electric upsides are marginal with mowers. Whereas with hand tools like leaf blowers and line trimmers, the benefits are massive. Professional electric garden tools place the battery pack on a backpack so that the handheld component is light weight. They are quieter so no ear protection is needed, no sooty emissions so no face mask needed, and less vibration so it’s far less fatiguing for all-day use.
      - jakobegger 8y ago
        You blow up a lot of dust with a leaf blower, so a face mask is probably a good idea regardless
        sjwright 8y ago
        Perhaps a good idea if you’re blowing all day but I rarely feel the need and I have dust & pollen allergies. Either way, with electric you’re not breathing in concentrated nitrous oxide and two-stroke oil soot. To deal with dust you’d only need a light and relatively comfortable fabric mask like they use in hospitals (or on Japanese public transport).
      - marcotaves 8y ago
        so no ear protection is needed, no sooty emissions so no face mask needed, and less vibration so it’s far less fatiguing for all-day use all day use is A Worker! A stripped reflexive band collar, we call nowadays, blue with yeallow reflexive strips collar or orange with orange reflexive strips collars so... HOw come how can , how professional workers will give up all protection as you mention!!!??? face mask no, no ear protetction, no vibration protection yes? ... Seriously , Man!!! have you ever worked in a not-white collar office cubicle Job??? honestly!!! I just went to surf and i see there are very nice and even beautiful orange reflexive and at the same time led enlighted for night use and beautiful if you ask me and orangish light is calming and relaxing but you can See easily so I like it very much it is for dogs in this case but good for bikers too and blue collar with reflexive strips workers on night shift and for marking borders between city areas and trees parks of woods areas or little forest areas so animals humans and other animals instinctively know the separation for whateve knowledge they are concerned or have the free will to do with that... interesting and maybe need more attention is that I didnt see in Brazil or any other place but probably exists is the crossing arcs/passarelas for road crossing exclusevely for non human animals...that would be nice so small animals know the way to cross above the roads and maybe with the enlighted strips orangeish to see the good way, yeah... thanks
  - caleblloyd 8y ago
    I had a 40v electric mower with 5A battery for $350 new a few years ago. Battery life got shorter every run, the stopped working after 2 years, replaced under 3 year warranty. Second battery life continues to get shorter. New 5A batteries are $150. I had some 2A batteries from other lawn equipment but the mower eats through those in 10m, plus puts another charge cycle on them. I finally got feud up and got a Honda self-propelled gas mower for $400 that should last 10 years. I think battery mower is great for tiny lawns, say 0.1 acres or less. Anything bigger and li-ion tech is going to be too expensive over the years. Love the battery weedeacker and hedge trimmer though. The battery blower is great for blowing the porch or driveway, but for fall cleanup or gutters it's the same story; get a corded electric for that.
    - nate_meurer 8y ago
      That's frustrating. What brand was it? Maybe I've just been lucky, but I've had exactly the opposite experience. I've mowed a large lawn with a Li-ion battery-powered mower for four years and I can't detect any degradation in the batteries. Maybe you already know and do this, but I'll note that some basic battery temperature management will greatly prolong their life. Don't let them bake in the sun, don't store them or charge them in a hot garage, etc. On the other hand, all of the gas-powered mowers I've ever used, even really expensive ones, were heavy, fiddly, stinky, obnoxious things that eventually drove me to use a reel mower for a short time before I went electric. I do still have a gas-powered machine. It's a tiller with a four-stroke engine. It's new and high-quality, and it's a fucking pain in the ass. It's hard to start, loud, smells like shit when it's running and the fuel stinks up my garage. Unfortunately there are no electric tillers, but we'll get there some day.
      - caleblloyd 8y ago
        It was a Kobalt. I think it may have been their first battery powered model. The Honda mower will evidently need maintenance (outside of oil and air filters which I can do) at some point too, but the nice thing is Northern Tool and Equipment has a shop and they are a Honda dealer, so they can fix it and have the Honda supply chain. Thing that sketched me out about the Kobalt is that once it fails or the battery is discontinued, you're on your own. I opened the battery up and it had 20x 4v cells but they were so tightly wired and glued that replacing all 20 would have been a pain in the ass, plus would've run around $80 for the cells. Tillers are another beast, you don't drive them around the yard, they drive you. At least in the North Carolina clay...
  - bzbarsky 8y ago
    Which mower did you end up getting, if I might ask?
    - imglorp 8y ago
      I got a mid-range Ryobi, because there is at least one string trimmer that uses the same power pack, and you can buy more of them. So far so good, but spring is coming so we'll see. maybe this one: https://www.homedepot.com/p/RYOBI-20-in-40-Volt-Brushless-Lithium-Ion-Cordless-Battery-Walk-Behind-Push-Lawn-Mower-5-0-Ah-Battery-Charger-Included-RY40180-Y/304597920 https://www.homedepot.com/p/RYOBI-20-in-40-Volt-Brushless-Li...
- gwbas1c 8y ago
  I considered a battery leaf blower a few years ago. It was as powerful as the average gas leaf blower. The problem is that the batteries needed to sustain running the leaf blower at high speeds are very heavy. I just shlep a cord through my yard, but that would not work if leaf blowing was my profession
  - zdragnar 8y ago
    I picked up an 80v leaf blower, and it's a bit unbalanced but definitely not too heavy to use. It's definitely been one of my happier purchases as far as lawn and yard tools go.
jakobegger 8y ago
It would make them too heavy. Two stroke engines have a great power to weight ratio, which is pretty much the only reason that they are used.
- burfog 8y ago
  It's fine. Even my weed trimmer is 4-stroke. Aircraft engines, which really need to have a great power to weight ratio, are normally 4-stroke. For small things, the only place that seems to justify 2-stroke is a chainsaw. This is partly because weight matters much more, and partly because a chainsaw is held at many different angles. Oil flow in a 4-stroke engine is difficult when you can't rely on gravity going in any particular direction. Given that the whole point of a leaf blower engine is to move air, I have to wonder if the best solution might be a turbine.
  - giardini 8y ago
    That's a great idea! Now if you'll just design an inexpensive turbine that won't fly apart catastrophically at 10,000-50,000 rpm, twist your hand off due to gyroscopic forces, and is easy-to-start w/o first spinning up to 5,000 rpm, we're set to go! Best bet: electric corded (120 Volts AC) leaf blowers: cheap, powerful, reliable, light and easy to maintain. No danger of battery fire/explosion due to abuse/age.
    - simcop2387 8y ago
      The startup issue might be mostly solved these days with cheap lithium batteries and brushless dc motors. That said you still have the turbine issue and the fact that it'll be much much louder.
- ericd 8y ago
  Not sure I buy that it would be too heavy, especially in the case of the backpack models.
  - marcotaves 8y ago
ip26 8y ago
Yes! But 4-stroke engines have been having a hard time cracking the leaf blower & weed whacker markets. It would also not solve noise.

grecy 8y ago

> Also would add non-negligible costs. Well, yes. Doing things that are good for the environment and our health is going to cost more money than not doing those things.