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IIUC, preliminary investigation said Lion Air plane wasn't airworthy before its flight and basically blamed Lion Air for poor safety processes: https://wkow.com

by _cs2017_ 8y ago

IIUC, preliminary investigation said Lion Air plane wasn't airworthy before its flight and basically blamed Lion Air for poor safety processes: https://wkow.com/news/top-stories/2018/11/28/lion-air-crash-officials-release-findings-of-preliminary-investigation/ https://wkow.com/news/top-stories/2018/11/28/lion-air-crash-..., https://www.indonesia-investments.com/news/todays-headlines/preliminary-findings-fatal-lion-air-crash-reported-by-investigators/item9042 https://www.indonesia-investments.com/news/todays-headlines/... OTOH, I've also seen independent analysis that suggests Boeing was to blame due to the poor disclosure of important changes in the system. What can explain such a difference in the primary messages from investigators and from analysts?

gamblor956 8y ago
Boeing failed to disclose important changes in the system. And Lion Air's maintenance rendered the plane unsuitable for flight. They can both be contributing factors to the earlier crash. If the EA flight was caused by the same sensor problem as the LA flight, then it would appear that Boeing's changes were the primary (and superseding) cause of the earlier crash, rendering Lion Air's non-maintenance moot from a legal point of view (in the US, for purposes of assigning damages).
- _cs2017_ 8y ago
  Oh so it could imply that Boeing is responsible for two independent contributing factors: sensor malfunction and failure to disclose system changes, correct? Wouldn't Lion Air processes still remain relevant as a third contributing factor, since fixing any of these factors could have reduced the probability of the accident?
  - rootusrootus 8y ago
    Sensors fail, at some point that becomes the airline's responsibility to maintain and not something which can be blamed on the manufacturer. Lion Air had reason to believe the sensors were malfunctioning and they still flew the plane unfixed.
russdill 8y ago
Almost any air crash is due to a sequence of factors. Both things can be true.
Someone1234 8y ago
> preliminary investigation said Lion Air plane wasn't airworthy before its flight and basically blamed Lion Air for poor safety processes Your own links say no such thing, and directly contradict your claims e.g.: > One of the angle-of-attack sensors on the airplane's fuselage was replaced after the airplane's penultimate flight - from Bali to Jakarta - after the Lion Air plane experienced malfunctioning data readings. Investigators therefore said the plane had not been airworthy during its last two flights. How did you get from repaired to "wasn't airworthy?" Also the actual report doesn't "blame" Lion Air, it simply lists the facts. It is far too early to be assigning blame, and I'm sure there will be enough to go around (including the regulators themselves).

gamblor956 8y ago

Boeing failed to disclose important changes in the system. And Lion Air's maintenance rendered the plane unsuitable for flight. They can both be contributing factors to the earlier crash. If the EA flight was caused by the same sensor problem as the LA flight, then it would appear that Boeing's changes were the primary (and superseding) cause of the earlier crash, rendering Lion Air's non-maintenance moot from a legal point of view (in the US, for purposes of assigning damages).

_cs2017_ 8y ago
Oh so it could imply that Boeing is responsible for two independent contributing factors: sensor malfunction and failure to disclose system changes, correct? Wouldn't Lion Air processes still remain relevant as a third contributing factor, since fixing any of these factors could have reduced the probability of the accident?
- rootusrootus 8y ago
  Sensors fail, at some point that becomes the airline's responsibility to maintain and not something which can be blamed on the manufacturer. Lion Air had reason to believe the sensors were malfunctioning and they still flew the plane unfixed.

russdill 8y ago

Almost any air crash is due to a sequence of factors. Both things can be true.

Someone1234 8y ago

> preliminary investigation said Lion Air plane wasn't airworthy before its flight and basically blamed Lion Air for poor safety processes Your own links say no such thing, and directly contradict your claims e.g.: > One of the angle-of-attack sensors on the airplane's fuselage was replaced after the airplane's penultimate flight - from Bali to Jakarta - after the Lion Air plane experienced malfunctioning data readings. Investigators therefore said the plane had not been airworthy during its last two flights. How did you get from repaired to "wasn't airworthy?" Also the actual report doesn't "blame" Lion Air, it simply lists the facts. It is far too early to be assigning blame, and I'm sure there will be enough to go around (including the regulators themselves).