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The whole incident is shameful especially the hospital staff that called the police. We talk about police being brave and courageous, but I wish these officers

The whole incident is shameful especially the hospital staff that called the police. We talk about police being brave and courageous, but I wish these officers had the courage to say this is wrong and I don’t want to be part of it.

johnnyfaehell 8y ago
Who talks about US police being brave? Normally I hear the oppisite.
- johndevor 8y ago
  The right side of the political spectrum talks about them being brave all the time.
- gumby 8y ago
  I’m pretty attuned to reports of police abuse/corruption/overreach BUT It’s a pretty crappy job: stop a car and you could be shot/run over; you tend to see people in extremis and encounter a lot of, well, let’s say “jerks”. Naturally it doesn’t encourage a lot of people to take the job. I have a friend who became a cop a few years ago and she has definitely become very very cynical which she had not been at all before. None of which defends this heartless search; I’m just providing a contextual response to your comment.
  - gotocake 8y ago
    On the other hand in 2018 144 out of 850,000 sworn officers were killed. Roofers, farmers, and groundskeepers have higher fatality rates and cause a lot less harm in their daily work. As for encountering jerks, try nursing, and again their daily routine doesn’t involve quite as much violation of the rights of others. The truth is that cops are far far more likely to kill someone than be killed by them.
    - gumby 8y ago
      I don't deny your conclusion (much less the facts). But it's a scary job typically around a bunch of scary people (it's not Andy Griffith). Also there's the psychological factor that (people tend to believe that) you'll fall off the roof through your own error, which you'll be smart enough to make, while when you walk up to the stopped car the person could pull out a gun unrelated to what you do beyond walking up to talk. The stress comes from belief, not statistics. I think the oppositional model and recent (last 30 years) glorification of militarism has caused grievous damage to the functioning of civil policing. Non of which excuses police abuse -- and in fact AFAICT encourages it.
  - johnnyfaehell 8y ago
    To be fair, most of the videos I see of the US Police abuse is generally caused by the fact they're afraid. Then you watch the documentaries and interviews and see a constant re-enforcement of that fear. It's like they're trained to be afraid and every day they are told to remain afraid.
thoughtstheseus 8y ago
Hospital staff has every right to call the police if they believe someone is using an illegal substance (state & federally) on their property. We should just fix the laws.
- aaomidi 8y ago
  No one here is talking about legal right. We're talking about moral right.
  - thoughtstheseus 8y ago
    Yeah, the moral thing seems to be just fix the laws. I’m open to other alternatives - please suggest.
    - jmcqk6 8y ago
      When the laws seem unfixable, is that still the only moral responsibility you have? You seem to be arguing that you should follow immoral laws until you have a chance to change them. That doesn't seem very moral to me.
      - thoughtstheseus 8y ago
        As per the article, the law is already being changed and it will be legal. The laws seem very "fixable" in this specific situation. I am not advocating for people to follow immoral laws.
  - quakenul 8y ago
    Expecting a few human beings, who all are involved in a stressful situation and have probably no philosophical inclinations, to come up with a morally sound choice on the spot seems like a tall order.
    - aaomidi 8y ago
      I think it's fair to expect people to think morally. It should be the default way of thinking, not something you spend energy on.
melling 8y ago
Seriously, change the laws. The "don't ask don't tell" attitude gets old after several decades. Over my lifetime, we've created cartels because of drugs. Millions have probably died or been exposed to violence. People flee countries and now we want to build a wall to keep all the "problems" out of the US, that we're largely responsible for. Let's not shame police. Same on you!
- atomi 8y ago
  There is also jury nullification which some people attribute to the repeal of alcohol prohibition.
aaomidi 8y ago
Was it actually the hospital staff?
jjeaff 8y ago
I'm not sure we have the whole story. If it's true that there was marijuana smoking going on, then you really can't permit that in a hospital. Not only because of the many sources of pure oxygen but also potentially sensitive patients with allergies, or respiratory conditions. I can't imagine anyone would know or care if it was just thc oil pills.
d0ugie 8y ago
Perhaps the less discretion and selective enforcement we afford police, prosecutors and judges, the more productive we will be in improving the array of laws they are tasked to enforce. On the other hand, homegrown weed is one of those things the Supreme Court, such as it is, needs to use words like "aggregate" to square federal regulation of it with the Commerce Clause, which is poppycock.

johnnyfaehell 8y ago

Who talks about US police being brave? Normally I hear the oppisite.

johndevor 8y ago
The right side of the political spectrum talks about them being brave all the time.
gumby 8y ago
I’m pretty attuned to reports of police abuse/corruption/overreach BUT It’s a pretty crappy job: stop a car and you could be shot/run over; you tend to see people in extremis and encounter a lot of, well, let’s say “jerks”. Naturally it doesn’t encourage a lot of people to take the job. I have a friend who became a cop a few years ago and she has definitely become very very cynical which she had not been at all before. None of which defends this heartless search; I’m just providing a contextual response to your comment.
- gotocake 8y ago
  On the other hand in 2018 144 out of 850,000 sworn officers were killed. Roofers, farmers, and groundskeepers have higher fatality rates and cause a lot less harm in their daily work. As for encountering jerks, try nursing, and again their daily routine doesn’t involve quite as much violation of the rights of others. The truth is that cops are far far more likely to kill someone than be killed by them.
  - gumby 8y ago
    I don't deny your conclusion (much less the facts). But it's a scary job typically around a bunch of scary people (it's not Andy Griffith). Also there's the psychological factor that (people tend to believe that) you'll fall off the roof through your own error, which you'll be smart enough to make, while when you walk up to the stopped car the person could pull out a gun unrelated to what you do beyond walking up to talk. The stress comes from belief, not statistics. I think the oppositional model and recent (last 30 years) glorification of militarism has caused grievous damage to the functioning of civil policing. Non of which excuses police abuse -- and in fact AFAICT encourages it.
- johnnyfaehell 8y ago
  To be fair, most of the videos I see of the US Police abuse is generally caused by the fact they're afraid. Then you watch the documentaries and interviews and see a constant re-enforcement of that fear. It's like they're trained to be afraid and every day they are told to remain afraid.

thoughtstheseus 8y ago

Hospital staff has every right to call the police if they believe someone is using an illegal substance (state & federally) on their property. We should just fix the laws.

aaomidi 8y ago
No one here is talking about legal right. We're talking about moral right.
- thoughtstheseus 8y ago
  Yeah, the moral thing seems to be just fix the laws. I’m open to other alternatives - please suggest.
  - jmcqk6 8y ago
    When the laws seem unfixable, is that still the only moral responsibility you have? You seem to be arguing that you should follow immoral laws until you have a chance to change them. That doesn't seem very moral to me.
    - thoughtstheseus 8y ago
      As per the article, the law is already being changed and it will be legal. The laws seem very "fixable" in this specific situation. I am not advocating for people to follow immoral laws.
- quakenul 8y ago
  Expecting a few human beings, who all are involved in a stressful situation and have probably no philosophical inclinations, to come up with a morally sound choice on the spot seems like a tall order.
  - aaomidi 8y ago
    I think it's fair to expect people to think morally. It should be the default way of thinking, not something you spend energy on.

melling 8y ago

Seriously, change the laws. The "don't ask don't tell" attitude gets old after several decades. Over my lifetime, we've created cartels because of drugs. Millions have probably died or been exposed to violence. People flee countries and now we want to build a wall to keep all the "problems" out of the US, that we're largely responsible for. Let's not shame police. Same on you!

atomi 8y ago
There is also jury nullification which some people attribute to the repeal of alcohol prohibition.

aaomidi 8y ago

Was it actually the hospital staff?

jjeaff 8y ago

I'm not sure we have the whole story. If it's true that there was marijuana smoking going on, then you really can't permit that in a hospital. Not only because of the many sources of pure oxygen but also potentially sensitive patients with allergies, or respiratory conditions. I can't imagine anyone would know or care if it was just thc oil pills.

d0ugie 8y ago

Perhaps the less discretion and selective enforcement we afford police, prosecutors and judges, the more productive we will be in improving the array of laws they are tasked to enforce. On the other hand, homegrown weed is one of those things the Supreme Court, such as it is, needs to use words like "aggregate" to square federal regulation of it with the Commerce Clause, which is poppycock.