4 ms·

>The protests in Moscow, the southern city of Voronezh and Khabarovsk in the far east had all been officially authorized. How subversive.

ethelward 8y ago
I don't know where you live, but is it not the same (i.e. you need official approbation to plan a protest) in most countries?
- PeterZhizhin 8y ago
  Yes. Except that in Russia this works a little bit different. You need a permission (not approbation) from the authorities for any political gatherings. Otherwise, everyone gathering risks spending 15 days in jail (or $500 fines, median monthly salary after tax $300) for gathering illegally. Usually they forbid them, so that was an exception.
  - egao1980 8y ago
    That's not how it works. You don't need permission to rally. You notify local government about the date and preferred place and number of people. If the place is available - you rally there if not you're given an alternative place.
    - lambdadmitry 8y ago
      First, you don't always get an alternative place, lately local authorities started just denying the permission. Second, even if they propose an alternative, it's somewhere on the outskirts and/or at extremely inconvenient time. You can find a big bunch of examples of both at [1] (in Russian). [1]: https://ovdinfo.org/news/2018/04/25/otkazy-v-soglasovanii-akciy-nam-ne-car https://ovdinfo.org/news/2018/04/25/otkazy-v-soglasovanii-ak...
  - ktjfi 8y ago
    So like in any other country? Except for the forbidding, of course.
    - purerandomness 8y ago
      Can you name one single other country where attendants are put in jail when attending a rally that was not permitted?
      - gdy 8y ago
        In Russia this might happen if you injure somebody or damage property during unpermitted rally.
        lambdadmitry 8y ago
        That's of course a lie. Both from practical standpoint (police will invent stuff out of whole cloth if needed with courts rubber-stamping it) and from legal one, too. КоАП РФ [1] article 20.2 6.1, "unsanctioned gatherings leading to interruption of… pedestrian flow… up to 15 days of detention" (do I need to explain that any gathering is in practice an "interruption"?). Moreover, УК РФ 212.1 [2] says that breaking the previous one twice in a half year is punishable by up to 8 years in jail. I'd also like to remind you about the case of Ildar Dadin [3], who got thrown in jail for 3 years for one-person pickets. Sure, he was released when the case got widely publicised, but the laws and court system that did it are still in place. I reckon you have a very… optimistic and cursory knowledge of Russian laws in that area. [1]: https://ru.wikisource.org/wiki/Кодекс_РФ_об_административных_правонарушениях/Глава_20#Статья_20.2 https://ru.wikisource.org/wiki/Кодекс_РФ_об_административных... [2]: https://ru.wikisource.org/wiki/Уголовный_кодекс_Российской_Федерации/Глава_24#Статья_212.1 https://ru.wikisource.org/wiki/Уголовный_кодекс_Российской_Ф... [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ildar_Dadin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ildar_Dadin
        gdy 8y ago
        "That's of course a lie." That was rude and unnecessary. According to [1], you are right and this article is used as you described against targeted political activists. At the same time, it is not how it is used in general case [2]. Moreover, if you look, for example, at the preceding article (20.1 - disorderly conduct in public places) [3] you must conclude that in Russia people are jailed for 15 days for saying 'fuck you' to somebody in a public place. Which, of course, is not happening because the degree of punishment, while at the judge's discretion, has to be proportional. [1] https://ovdinfo.org/codex/ch-61-st-202-koap https://ovdinfo.org/codex/ch-61-st-202-koap [2] https://dogovor-urist.ru/%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0/%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%8C%D1%8F/%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B0%D0%BF_%D1%80%D1%84/%D1%81%D1%82_20_2/ https://dogovor-urist.ru/%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%B... [3] https://www.consultant.ru/document/cons_doc_LAW_34661/74754240d170cc049cd7b313852fd5985eb0aafc/ https://www.consultant.ru/document/cons_doc_LAW_34661/747542...
  - gdy 8y ago
    "everyone gathering risks spending 15 days in jail" Another Russian here. You are misinformed. The law threatens you with 15 days in jail if you injure somebody or damage property. Likewise, the fines are reserved for things like being drunk or inciting violence. https://zakoved.ru/pravonarusheniya/nesanktsionirovannyj-miting.html https://zakoved.ru/pravonarusheniya/nesanktsionirovannyj-mit...
    - lambdadmitry 8y ago
      Nope, see КоАП 20.2 6.1 for example. Also see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19355745 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19355745
GordonS 8y ago
Prior authorisation is actually required in many westerm democracies if you're going to block roads and the like.

ethelward 8y ago

I don't know where you live, but is it not the same (i.e. you need official approbation to plan a protest) in most countries?

PeterZhizhin 8y ago
Yes. Except that in Russia this works a little bit different. You need a permission (not approbation) from the authorities for any political gatherings. Otherwise, everyone gathering risks spending 15 days in jail (or $500 fines, median monthly salary after tax $300) for gathering illegally. Usually they forbid them, so that was an exception.
- egao1980 8y ago
  That's not how it works. You don't need permission to rally. You notify local government about the date and preferred place and number of people. If the place is available - you rally there if not you're given an alternative place.
  - lambdadmitry 8y ago
    First, you don't always get an alternative place, lately local authorities started just denying the permission. Second, even if they propose an alternative, it's somewhere on the outskirts and/or at extremely inconvenient time. You can find a big bunch of examples of both at [1] (in Russian). [1]: https://ovdinfo.org/news/2018/04/25/otkazy-v-soglasovanii-akciy-nam-ne-car https://ovdinfo.org/news/2018/04/25/otkazy-v-soglasovanii-ak...
- ktjfi 8y ago
  So like in any other country? Except for the forbidding, of course.
  - purerandomness 8y ago
    Can you name one single other country where attendants are put in jail when attending a rally that was not permitted?
    - gdy 8y ago
      In Russia this might happen if you injure somebody or damage property during unpermitted rally.
      - lambdadmitry 8y ago
        That's of course a lie. Both from practical standpoint (police will invent stuff out of whole cloth if needed with courts rubber-stamping it) and from legal one, too. КоАП РФ [1] article 20.2 6.1, "unsanctioned gatherings leading to interruption of… pedestrian flow… up to 15 days of detention" (do I need to explain that any gathering is in practice an "interruption"?). Moreover, УК РФ 212.1 [2] says that breaking the previous one twice in a half year is punishable by up to 8 years in jail. I'd also like to remind you about the case of Ildar Dadin [3], who got thrown in jail for 3 years for one-person pickets. Sure, he was released when the case got widely publicised, but the laws and court system that did it are still in place. I reckon you have a very… optimistic and cursory knowledge of Russian laws in that area. [1]: https://ru.wikisource.org/wiki/Кодекс_РФ_об_административных_правонарушениях/Глава_20#Статья_20.2 https://ru.wikisource.org/wiki/Кодекс_РФ_об_административных... [2]: https://ru.wikisource.org/wiki/Уголовный_кодекс_Российской_Федерации/Глава_24#Статья_212.1 https://ru.wikisource.org/wiki/Уголовный_кодекс_Российской_Ф... [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ildar_Dadin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ildar_Dadin
        gdy 8y ago
        "That's of course a lie." That was rude and unnecessary. According to [1], you are right and this article is used as you described against targeted political activists. At the same time, it is not how it is used in general case [2]. Moreover, if you look, for example, at the preceding article (20.1 - disorderly conduct in public places) [3] you must conclude that in Russia people are jailed for 15 days for saying 'fuck you' to somebody in a public place. Which, of course, is not happening because the degree of punishment, while at the judge's discretion, has to be proportional. [1] https://ovdinfo.org/codex/ch-61-st-202-koap https://ovdinfo.org/codex/ch-61-st-202-koap [2] https://dogovor-urist.ru/%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0/%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%8C%D1%8F/%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B0%D0%BF_%D1%80%D1%84/%D1%81%D1%82_20_2/ https://dogovor-urist.ru/%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%B... [3] https://www.consultant.ru/document/cons_doc_LAW_34661/74754240d170cc049cd7b313852fd5985eb0aafc/ https://www.consultant.ru/document/cons_doc_LAW_34661/747542...
- gdy 8y ago
  "everyone gathering risks spending 15 days in jail" Another Russian here. You are misinformed. The law threatens you with 15 days in jail if you injure somebody or damage property. Likewise, the fines are reserved for things like being drunk or inciting violence. https://zakoved.ru/pravonarusheniya/nesanktsionirovannyj-miting.html https://zakoved.ru/pravonarusheniya/nesanktsionirovannyj-mit...
  - lambdadmitry 8y ago
    Nope, see КоАП 20.2 6.1 for example. Also see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19355745 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19355745

GordonS 8y ago

Prior authorisation is actually required in many westerm democracies if you're going to block roads and the like.