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Second 737 Max to go down within the span of a few months. I hope it's a coincidence, but that can't look good on Boeing. E: Removed the word 'sure'
by stackola 8y ago
Second 737 Max to go down within the span of a few months.
I hope it's a coincidence, but that can't look good on Boeing.
E: Removed the word 'sure'
- ulfw 8y agoWhat makes you sure it is a coincidence?
- stackola 8y agoI simply didn't want to jump to a conclusion, of course I can not be sure.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- alistairSH 8y agoIs it a coincidence? Or, is it the same problem again? It appears (by the map in the link) that this one also crashed not long after take-off.
- tialaramex 8y agoMost incidents are going to happen at the two parts of the flight with least margin for error, take-off and landing. Even if something bad does go wrong in cruise, you are very far from the ground and glide well, you have lots of chances to fix it and not die. So, sure, it might not be a coincidence, but "it happened near take off" is not surprising.
- huffmsa 8y ago"It's not the fall that kills you, it's the ground" is an adage for a reason
- alistairSH 8y agoSure, but this plane also showed extremely erratic vertical speed readings, just as Lion Air did. The pilots appeared to be fighting the plane before requesting an emergency turn-around.
- StreamBright 8y agoAs I wrote earlier, I am not flying with 737 Max until this issue is going to be addressed.
- leesalminen 8y agoI have 4 flights on 737MAX8 in the next couple weeks. Not feeling great about it.
- cjbprime 8y agoI wonder whether those flights will happen on those planes. There are only a few hundred MAXs in existence, and now two new ones have failed. Grounding the fleet wouldn't feel like an overreaction to me.
- leesalminen 8y agoAgreed. Debating booking a refundable ticket on another airline that doesn’t fly MAX in case of a grounding this week.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- cjbprime 8y agoLooks like China's grounded all of theirs now.
- StreamBright 8y agoAbsolutely. However, which group would you belong to later on: - the one that avoided flying MAXs and it turned out to be something else - the one that avoided flying MAXs and it turned out to be a problem with the MAX - the one that did not avoid flying MAXs and it turned out to be something else - the one that did not avoid flying MAXs and it turned out to be a problem with the MAX I think it is much safer to be in the first two and potentially being labeled paranoid later on worst case.
- baybal2 8y agoLooks like it crashed at a very steep angle. Previous crash was involving a stall prevention software overwhelming the pilot input. It was said to be added to new 737 due to it getting slightly tail heavier, and as a safeguard to pilot overreacting to it feeling unusual.
- CydeWeys 8y agoAnd most crucially, this system can't be overridden using stick inputs whereas previous systems on the 737 were. And this change amongst others was kept relatively hidden by Boeing as a cost-savings measure, so that a 737 pilot can fly a new MAX without needing a new certification.
- leesalminen 8y agoIs this true? Terrifying that a pilot can’t override the computer.
- wereHamster 8y agoWait until you learn about how the fly-by-wire system on Airbus works ;)
- king_magic 8y agoBut A319/320/321s aren’t dropping out of the sky at an astonishing rate. It may be the case that Airbus is simply better at building automation into the fabric of their aircraft from the ground up than Boeing.
- olivil 8y agoOr that pilots in general do not know how to fly anymore. /s
- ahartmetz 8y agoThat is probably true. Airbus pilots know and expect the computer to have the last word. Pilots of all planes are expected to know how to engage alternate law (more direct control) or disable specific parts of automation when necessary. I was going to say they are not doing too well at that, but then you only hear about it when they failed. In the same vein you don't hear much about automation saving lives. I have a friend who is a commercial pilot and who doesn't like Airbus planes because he doesn't want to be overruled by a computer... Accident statistics are a wash between Boeing and Airbus, though.
- huffmsa 8y agoGiving the infrequency of airplane crashes, it probably isn't coincidence. Very unlikely for a brand new plane to suffer issues with altitude shortly after take off. Even less likely for it to happen twice in a span of a few months. However, aviation history has more than a handful of samples where a new design suffered multiple crashes shortly after introduction and the cause was ultimately a design flaw.
- huffmsa 8y agoSomeone is probably pulling all of the flight logs for the 737 MAX right now and is going to see how many other non-fatal cases of altitude issues after take have been reported.
- em3rgent0rdr 8y ago> "Giving the infrequency of airplane crashes, it probably isn't coincidence." I don't think that's how statistics work. You need larger sample sizes in order to make such a statement with high confidence.
- cjbprime 8y agoThat depends on the size of the effect. The total loss of a modern airliner due to a control issue is so rare that we might indeed be there now, statistically.
- peteradio 8y ago1 event can be significant.
- remote_phone 8y agoNo. If you take a small sample size and you find the problem twice then it warrants a great deal of investigating. This is common in auditing for example.
- em3rgent0rdr 8y agoYes it warrants investigating. But it still more probably is a coincidence.
- kilroy123 8y agoThe frighting thing is, I was just looking at tickets for that exact flight leg (but the opposite direction), for an upcoming trip this summer. I am not flying any leg on the 737 Max now.
- LeifCarrotson 8y agoI was going to try to tell you that airplanes are extremely safe, that two highly publicized crashes in 8 months should be compared to a far larger number of unsurprising, non-newsworthy auto crashes...but there are only 330 total 737 Max planes flying, and two have crashed. Those aren't the numbers I expected.
- 55555 8y agoThat's an absolutely insane rate. They should all be grounded...
- muzani 8y agoMy wife, a civil engineer, loves all kinds of new things, especially new car models. Me, the software engineer, am extremely paranoid with newly released models of any kind. I'd rather wait a few years for it to be tested, never being an early adopter for it.
- liberte82 8y agoWaterfall vs. Agile