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That's a view for sure, and as a company I'm not sure what Docker's endgame is now. However, I think it's premature to write off Docker the technology. There'

That's a view for sure, and as a company I'm not sure what Docker's endgame is now. However, I think it's premature to write off Docker the technology. There's a load of scripts/tooling/mindshare baked into the Docker model for executing containers, and I don't think that's going to switch to another model overnight. As many people have commented on this thread, the killer app. for Docker the technology isn't running in production, it's running in development, where you're unlikely to want a full k8s cluster.

user5994461 8y ago
Docker got over a $100M in VC funding, they can continue to operate without revenue for years. I hate to break it up to you but the model already switched overnight. The job market is the biggest indicator for sure. Any experience with Docker is mostly worthless at this point. No company will hire somebody with Docker experience alone, without Kubernetes. Kubernetes has replaced most of what you mention with its own idioms and tools. All the way from the lips of the CEO to the engineers in a F50, it's talking Kubernetes, not a mention of Docker.
- raesene9 8y ago
  Well you've got your experiences and I've got mine, I don't think one set necessarily invalidates the other :) My experiences are that every k8s cluster I've seen uses Docker as the underlying CRI and in development land, Docker as a product is very prevalent.
  - user5994461 8y ago
    I don't intend to deny your experience at all. Docker is everywhere about now, same for me. There is another thread discussing that RHEL 8 is replacing the docker command with its own command line tool. Looks like it's happening sooner rather than later. There is a lot of work going on industry wide to replace Docker, can't deny that either. I personally find it very ironic that Kubernetes only supports docker (more or less) while it's trying hard to never use the word docker and it has a whole concept of replaceable container engines.
    - raesene9 8y ago
      That Redhat don't like Docker is not surprising :) Whether their tooling will supplant Docker is more debatable. From what I've seen they don't have huge traction outside of Redhat for their stuff, so all the other major players in the space (Google, Microsoft, Amazon etc) are not shifting to use Redhat's stack. so the challenge is, can they convert developers from using the easy to use Docker, to their newer more complex setup? I'm not sure I'd bet on that. Anecdotely, it doesn't feel to me like Openshift is winning the "Kubernetes distro" fight, if what I see on reviews is anything to go by it's mostly kubeadm, kops, Rancher or GKE/AKS/EKS. So Redhat replace bits with their tooling, Google do the same (kaniko, GVisor et al) Amazon continue to push Fargate and serverless, there's not a unified "replace docker" effort, more a splintering of tooling/services. My personal view is that on Dev. desktops Docker still provides the best experience. That will continue to keep them relevant until someone else can replicate/exceed that experience.
      - merb 8y ago
        well actually it's clear that docker is bad at building images, thats why a lot of solutions are coming around to build them. I mean google has over 3 different ways of building containers, kaniko, jib and even a way in bazel. also security you can't run shared environments with docker or container runtimes. thats why they invented givsor. however docker will still live as a runtime and probably a lot of companies still keep docker as the runtime. I mean containerd will probably be the default one in k8s, sooner or later, but that will only happen because containerd was designed just for that. being a awesome container runtime designed to have a good api. docker basically has only lost because they focused on too much. docker can do all things, but way worse than all the special tooling.

user5994461 8y ago

Docker got over a $100M in VC funding, they can continue to operate without revenue for years. I hate to break it up to you but the model already switched overnight. The job market is the biggest indicator for sure. Any experience with Docker is mostly worthless at this point. No company will hire somebody with Docker experience alone, without Kubernetes. Kubernetes has replaced most of what you mention with its own idioms and tools. All the way from the lips of the CEO to the engineers in a F50, it's talking Kubernetes, not a mention of Docker.

raesene9 8y ago
Well you've got your experiences and I've got mine, I don't think one set necessarily invalidates the other :) My experiences are that every k8s cluster I've seen uses Docker as the underlying CRI and in development land, Docker as a product is very prevalent.
- user5994461 8y ago
  I don't intend to deny your experience at all. Docker is everywhere about now, same for me. There is another thread discussing that RHEL 8 is replacing the docker command with its own command line tool. Looks like it's happening sooner rather than later. There is a lot of work going on industry wide to replace Docker, can't deny that either. I personally find it very ironic that Kubernetes only supports docker (more or less) while it's trying hard to never use the word docker and it has a whole concept of replaceable container engines.
  - raesene9 8y ago
    That Redhat don't like Docker is not surprising :) Whether their tooling will supplant Docker is more debatable. From what I've seen they don't have huge traction outside of Redhat for their stuff, so all the other major players in the space (Google, Microsoft, Amazon etc) are not shifting to use Redhat's stack. so the challenge is, can they convert developers from using the easy to use Docker, to their newer more complex setup? I'm not sure I'd bet on that. Anecdotely, it doesn't feel to me like Openshift is winning the "Kubernetes distro" fight, if what I see on reviews is anything to go by it's mostly kubeadm, kops, Rancher or GKE/AKS/EKS. So Redhat replace bits with their tooling, Google do the same (kaniko, GVisor et al) Amazon continue to push Fargate and serverless, there's not a unified "replace docker" effort, more a splintering of tooling/services. My personal view is that on Dev. desktops Docker still provides the best experience. That will continue to keep them relevant until someone else can replicate/exceed that experience.
    - merb 8y ago
      well actually it's clear that docker is bad at building images, thats why a lot of solutions are coming around to build them. I mean google has over 3 different ways of building containers, kaniko, jib and even a way in bazel. also security you can't run shared environments with docker or container runtimes. thats why they invented givsor. however docker will still live as a runtime and probably a lot of companies still keep docker as the runtime. I mean containerd will probably be the default one in k8s, sooner or later, but that will only happen because containerd was designed just for that. being a awesome container runtime designed to have a good api. docker basically has only lost because they focused on too much. docker can do all things, but way worse than all the special tooling.