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It depends on what you deploy to. If it’s AWS or Azure web-app type stuff, then maybe not, but if it’s your own infrastructure in anyway then fuck yes. Ten yea

by jaabe 8y ago

It depends on what you deploy to. If it’s AWS or Azure web-app type stuff, then maybe not, but if it’s your own infrastructure in anyway then fuck yes. Ten years ago we build things in C#, used MSSQL and deployed to IIS. All Microsoft tech, all pretty straightforward, except it wasn’t. We never kept track of the “it works in dev, but it explodes in prod and I don’t know why” hours, but I wish we did. Because it’s in the thousands, and those thousands of hours is exactly why we use docker. We also use docker because it lets us build things that our IT crew isn’t certified in running infrastructure for (and the lovely security issues that brings to the table) but we mainly do it because it works. Docker might not have a monopoly on that, but they have enough of a brand that the word “docker” is to containers what “google” is to search. At least in my circles.

fxfan 8y ago
What are some docker alternatives? And how does Docker on windows work? I know it uses Hyper-V underneath but does MS include a base linux kernel image?
- raesene9 8y ago
  Docker on Windows is interesting. For windows containers, it can do both process based isolation (similar to Docker on Linux) and Hyper-V based isolation, which uses a very cut down VM as a base. Compared to Linux containers the base images are large, but there are only a few commonly used base images, so once you've got them it's not too horrible due to the overlay filesystem in use. For Linux containers there is LCoW, which uses a Linuxkit VM to host the containers. There is also some chance that in the future Linux containers will run natively on Windows without a VM, via WSL. This is very hacky at the moment but there have been reports of people being able to run Docker engine in WSL with no VM.
  - fxfan 8y ago
    I always thought WSL was only meant to be a dev-tool. Do you have any links where there is a mention of a plan for them to be prod? (I know that's not what you're mentioning but wondering if that's how you guessed...)
    - raesene9 8y ago
      So it's mainly in GH issue comments things like https://github.com/Microsoft/WSL/issues/2291#issuecomment-383698720 https://github.com/Microsoft/WSL/issues/2291#issuecomment-38... show that people have got it working. Whether MS ever use that tech. for production linux containers remains to be seen. It sounds kind of cool and might be good enough for dev/test but I imagine sorting out all the wrinkles to make it prod. ready could be tricky...
GordonS 8y ago
I use Docker for development stuff too. I (and team members) have spent countless hours battling with setting up things like RabbitMQ, and I only wish I'd done it sooner - being able to instantly spin up a working, consistent development environment is amazing. I know you can do this with VMs too, with tools like Vagrant, but containers start in a couple of seconds - great for integration tests.
bsder 8y ago
> We also use docker because it lets us build things that our IT crew isn’t certified in running infrastructure for (and the lovely security issues that brings to the table) but we mainly do it because it works. It is amazing how many technologies get traction simply because "It lets us bypass IT."
- jaabe 8y ago
  In our case it’s the compromise between developers and a operations department which has 5 technicians to support the infrastructure of a municipality with 7000 employees and around 300 IT-systems. To manage our IT had to make certain infrastructure decisions and build their competency around those. This clashes with a lot of modern development, but we manage with docker and an increasing Azure presence. It’s not optimal, but sometimes it’s just necessary. Don’t get me wrong, we’re trying to improve and build Devops that isn’t handing off a container, but it’s a challenge in sectors where digitisation and IT aren’t priorities despite being an inherent part of any business process in 2019. There is a real danger in there of course, but we have strategic choices for our development platforms as well. They just need to move a little faster than IT.

by jaabe 8y ago

fxfan 8y ago

What are some docker alternatives? And how does Docker on windows work? I know it uses Hyper-V underneath but does MS include a base linux kernel image?

raesene9 8y ago
Docker on Windows is interesting. For windows containers, it can do both process based isolation (similar to Docker on Linux) and Hyper-V based isolation, which uses a very cut down VM as a base. Compared to Linux containers the base images are large, but there are only a few commonly used base images, so once you've got them it's not too horrible due to the overlay filesystem in use. For Linux containers there is LCoW, which uses a Linuxkit VM to host the containers. There is also some chance that in the future Linux containers will run natively on Windows without a VM, via WSL. This is very hacky at the moment but there have been reports of people being able to run Docker engine in WSL with no VM.
- fxfan 8y ago
  I always thought WSL was only meant to be a dev-tool. Do you have any links where there is a mention of a plan for them to be prod? (I know that's not what you're mentioning but wondering if that's how you guessed...)
  - raesene9 8y ago
    So it's mainly in GH issue comments things like https://github.com/Microsoft/WSL/issues/2291#issuecomment-383698720 https://github.com/Microsoft/WSL/issues/2291#issuecomment-38... show that people have got it working. Whether MS ever use that tech. for production linux containers remains to be seen. It sounds kind of cool and might be good enough for dev/test but I imagine sorting out all the wrinkles to make it prod. ready could be tricky...

GordonS 8y ago

I use Docker for development stuff too. I (and team members) have spent countless hours battling with setting up things like RabbitMQ, and I only wish I'd done it sooner - being able to instantly spin up a working, consistent development environment is amazing. I know you can do this with VMs too, with tools like Vagrant, but containers start in a couple of seconds - great for integration tests.

bsder 8y ago

> We also use docker because it lets us build things that our IT crew isn’t certified in running infrastructure for (and the lovely security issues that brings to the table) but we mainly do it because it works. It is amazing how many technologies get traction simply because "It lets us bypass IT."

jaabe 8y ago
In our case it’s the compromise between developers and a operations department which has 5 technicians to support the infrastructure of a municipality with 7000 employees and around 300 IT-systems. To manage our IT had to make certain infrastructure decisions and build their competency around those. This clashes with a lot of modern development, but we manage with docker and an increasing Azure presence. It’s not optimal, but sometimes it’s just necessary. Don’t get me wrong, we’re trying to improve and build Devops that isn’t handing off a container, but it’s a challenge in sectors where digitisation and IT aren’t priorities despite being an inherent part of any business process in 2019. There is a real danger in there of course, but we have strategic choices for our development platforms as well. They just need to move a little faster than IT.