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The article mentions Kubernetes using containerd and the OCI is the future, but also fails to mention that containerd is developed by Docker, which supports OCI

by pknopf 8y ago

The article mentions Kubernetes using containerd and the OCI is the future, but also fails to mention that containerd is developed by Docker, which supports OCI, which largely supported by the Docker company. As of the latest versions of Docker, the dockerd is now using containerd under the hood. I'm not sure how the Docker CLI will exactly die. The posts seem to focus on the CLI only, and even calls out that "the viability of the company Docker is outside the scope of the post", but it failed mention my previous points.

scaryclam 8y ago
Containerd is a project within the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, which in turn is part of the Linux Foundation. Docker haven't been directly involved since 2015, and even then, it's arguable that they've never been (you may be thinking of runc though, which was donated in 2015). It's true that Docker uses containerd under to hood, but that's actually part of what the author is arguing. Docker as a technology is a wrapper platform around core industry technologies that they neither own or control. That means they have to compete as a tooling company, and they have already lost ground there. The more things like Kubernetes and podman join the market, the less required Docker becomes, which means they're going to be more and more at risk of failing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Foundation#Containerd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Foundation#Containerd edit: added link for reference
- pknopf 8y ago
  > Docker haven't been directly involved since 2015, and even then, it's arguable that they've never been A large majority of even the recent commits to containerd are made by Docker employees. https://github.com/containerd/containerd/commits/master https://github.com/containerd/containerd/commits/master > It's true that Docker uses containerd under to hood, but that's actually part of what the author is arguing. Docker as a technology is a wrapper platform around core industry technologies that they neither own or control. I cede your point, but it's irrelevant and isn't want the author implying (even directly). From the article: "I do not think there is any reason for us to user docker any more and therefore Docker as a technology and as a company will slowly vanish." The end users do not care how cgroups are setup or mount points are built. The guts may be standardized, but the docker toolchain (Dockerfile, docker-compose, docker run) will continue to exist. The "runtime" is irrelevant and there just isn't a competitor in the "tool chain" arena. Docker Swarm is the only thing that will vanish. > The more things like Kubernetes and podman join the market, the less required Docker becomes, which means they're going to be more and more at risk of failing. Kubernetes is an entirely different use-case. Nobody is arguing Docker Swarm will beat it. You could say the Docker CLI isn't required with the advent of other tools, but those are incredibly big shoes to fill. Think of all that entails (Dockerfile, docker-compose, the CLI, cross-platform(-ish) support for Windows/OSX). Also, competition leads to better tooling. Did anyone ever say "Unix isn't required any more, because with have Linux"? The tooling of the Docker CLI is in a very good spot as-is. The guts are being opened, which I think would relieve the pressure some may feel to jump from Docker.
- cpuguy83 8y ago
  containerd is a project started entirely by Docker and contributed to the CNCF by Docker, and Docker is still a primary contributor and maintainer on the project. Where do you get this information from?

by pknopf 8y ago

scaryclam 8y ago

Containerd is a project within the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, which in turn is part of the Linux Foundation. Docker haven't been directly involved since 2015, and even then, it's arguable that they've never been (you may be thinking of runc though, which was donated in 2015). It's true that Docker uses containerd under to hood, but that's actually part of what the author is arguing. Docker as a technology is a wrapper platform around core industry technologies that they neither own or control. That means they have to compete as a tooling company, and they have already lost ground there. The more things like Kubernetes and podman join the market, the less required Docker becomes, which means they're going to be more and more at risk of failing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Foundation#Containerd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Foundation#Containerd edit: added link for reference

pknopf 8y ago
> Docker haven't been directly involved since 2015, and even then, it's arguable that they've never been A large majority of even the recent commits to containerd are made by Docker employees. https://github.com/containerd/containerd/commits/master https://github.com/containerd/containerd/commits/master > It's true that Docker uses containerd under to hood, but that's actually part of what the author is arguing. Docker as a technology is a wrapper platform around core industry technologies that they neither own or control. I cede your point, but it's irrelevant and isn't want the author implying (even directly). From the article: "I do not think there is any reason for us to user docker any more and therefore Docker as a technology and as a company will slowly vanish." The end users do not care how cgroups are setup or mount points are built. The guts may be standardized, but the docker toolchain (Dockerfile, docker-compose, docker run) will continue to exist. The "runtime" is irrelevant and there just isn't a competitor in the "tool chain" arena. Docker Swarm is the only thing that will vanish. > The more things like Kubernetes and podman join the market, the less required Docker becomes, which means they're going to be more and more at risk of failing. Kubernetes is an entirely different use-case. Nobody is arguing Docker Swarm will beat it. You could say the Docker CLI isn't required with the advent of other tools, but those are incredibly big shoes to fill. Think of all that entails (Dockerfile, docker-compose, the CLI, cross-platform(-ish) support for Windows/OSX). Also, competition leads to better tooling. Did anyone ever say "Unix isn't required any more, because with have Linux"? The tooling of the Docker CLI is in a very good spot as-is. The guts are being opened, which I think would relieve the pressure some may feel to jump from Docker.
cpuguy83 8y ago
containerd is a project started entirely by Docker and contributed to the CNCF by Docker, and Docker is still a primary contributor and maintainer on the project. Where do you get this information from?