4 ms·

I'm a poor historian, but my understanding was that Lenin was the Marxism-oriented one, while Stalin, who murdered Lenin, by slowly poisoning him by putting hea

by dmos62 8y ago

I'm a poor historian, but my understanding was that Lenin was the Marxism-oriented one, while Stalin, who murdered Lenin, by slowly poisoning him by putting heavy metals in his hat, highjacked the revolution and went on a mass-murderous power-grabbing rampage. Reading back the end of my last sentence, I'm obviously skewing this against Stalin, reducing his legacy to murder and egomania, but my main point is that he is seen by some (many?) to have highjacked the revolution.

iguy 8y ago
And many see Lenin's October revolution as hijacking the February one for his own murderous egomania. But often this just this seems like a way of pretending there was some pure utopian vision which was unfortunately corrupted, every time. In reality total power is always total power. Independent enthusiasm was welcomed when it was minor and useful (like in western communist parties, or the recruiting of western volunteers for Spain) but crushed completely if it had any chance of getting in the way of naked power (like the pre-war Polish communists, almost all murdered).
- microcolonel 8y ago
  > Independent enthusiasm was welcomed when it was minor and useful (like in western communist parties, or the recruiting of western volunteers for Spain) but crushed completely if it had any chance of getting in the way of naked power (like the pre-war Polish communists, almost all murdered). True believers are vulnerable because they are too stupid or too delusional to realize the weakness of their cookie cutter ideology. Invariably, true believers are converted to useful idiots if there is anyone who wants them (or sometimes upgraded to cynical tyrants).
  - Can_Not 8y ago
    I think it's pretty disingenuous to pretend like "true believers" and "blinded by utopian visions" are legitimate talking points when you consider that at the time most countries were recovering from one or two world wars and there was a literal standing army of Nazis with known explicit goals to eradicate and/or dominate Jews and Socialists. This isn't "you gotta crack some eggs to make an omelet", this is "everybody is cracking eggs and you're next". If anything, you're expressing a heavily idealized version of a very complex, difficult, and dangerous time.
nyolfen 8y ago
the bit about poisoning is speculative, nobody really knows
the_af 8y ago
> "Stalin, who murdered Lenin" This is not commonly accepted history. Speculation at best.
Fins 8y ago
While Stalin certainly bis one of the greatest mass murderers in history, it should be noted that concentration camps, summary executions, mass reprisals etc. etc. where pioneered by Lenin who did not even shy away from calling them such. Whether Stalin offed him, or complications of syphilis were sufficient, had he lived longer it is unlikely that the death toll would have been significantly different.

by dmos62 8y ago

iguy 8y ago

And many see Lenin's October revolution as hijacking the February one for his own murderous egomania. But often this just this seems like a way of pretending there was some pure utopian vision which was unfortunately corrupted, every time. In reality total power is always total power. Independent enthusiasm was welcomed when it was minor and useful (like in western communist parties, or the recruiting of western volunteers for Spain) but crushed completely if it had any chance of getting in the way of naked power (like the pre-war Polish communists, almost all murdered).

microcolonel 8y ago
> Independent enthusiasm was welcomed when it was minor and useful (like in western communist parties, or the recruiting of western volunteers for Spain) but crushed completely if it had any chance of getting in the way of naked power (like the pre-war Polish communists, almost all murdered). True believers are vulnerable because they are too stupid or too delusional to realize the weakness of their cookie cutter ideology. Invariably, true believers are converted to useful idiots if there is anyone who wants them (or sometimes upgraded to cynical tyrants).
- Can_Not 8y ago
  I think it's pretty disingenuous to pretend like "true believers" and "blinded by utopian visions" are legitimate talking points when you consider that at the time most countries were recovering from one or two world wars and there was a literal standing army of Nazis with known explicit goals to eradicate and/or dominate Jews and Socialists. This isn't "you gotta crack some eggs to make an omelet", this is "everybody is cracking eggs and you're next". If anything, you're expressing a heavily idealized version of a very complex, difficult, and dangerous time.

nyolfen 8y ago

the bit about poisoning is speculative, nobody really knows

the_af 8y ago

> "Stalin, who murdered Lenin" This is not commonly accepted history. Speculation at best.

Fins 8y ago

While Stalin certainly bis one of the greatest mass murderers in history, it should be noted that concentration camps, summary executions, mass reprisals etc. etc. where pioneered by Lenin who did not even shy away from calling them such. Whether Stalin offed him, or complications of syphilis were sufficient, had he lived longer it is unlikely that the death toll would have been significantly different.