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The headline is wrong. It's not a regulator telling anything. A regulator would be a federal or state body making a decision (which then might be challenged in

The headline is wrong. It's not a regulator telling anything. A regulator would be a federal or state body making a decision (which then might be challenged in court). It's an organization which maybe could be called a self-regulation body threatening with a lawsuit. And Tesla agreeing "voluntarily" to stop the practice. Well, voluntarily, because they obviously admit that their previous practice would be deemed illegal in court.

Tomte 8y ago
The Wettbewerbszentrale is a bit more than a self-regulating body (and why self-regulating? The "regulated" business aren't members). It has special legal status in that it can start such lawsuits, which normal associations can't.
- usr1106 8y ago
  I must admit that I don't have a deeper understanding of their members. Can you shed some light of the structure/profile of their 1200 business members and 800 (lobbying) organisation members?
  - pjtr 8y ago
    The list of members is here: https://www.wettbewerbszentrale.de/de/institution/mitgliedschaft/mitgliederverzeichnis/ https://www.wettbewerbszentrale.de/de/institution/mitgliedsc... It includes for example Audi, BMW, Daimler, Ford, Opel, Volkswagen, the VDA (Verband der Automobilindustrie; German Association of the Automotive Industry) and the VDIK (Verband der Internationalen Kraftfahrzeughersteller; Association of International Motor Vehicle Manufacturers) VDA members are here: https://www.vda.de/en/association/members.html https://www.vda.de/en/association/members.html VDIK members are here: http://www.vdik.de/members/members.html http://www.vdik.de/members/members.html and include for example Citroën, Fiat, Honda, Hyundai, Jeep, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Peugot, Renault, Saab, Toyota, Volvo...
    - usr1106 8y ago
      OK, so all traditional car manufacturers are there. Tesla is probably not represented and at all or only with a very minimal weight through some association. No surprise they don't accept Tesla's aggressive and misleading marketing, which did not exist in Germany before and is not in compliance with accepted legal practice. On the other hand there are so many competing companies represented there, that similar practices of any single traditional manufacturer would not be accepted either. So I don't see why people reject the characterization of self-regulation. Of course if most of the car manufacturers agree to do something illegal the self-regulation will fail. This has happened in the car manufacturing supply-chain, fines have been imposed and more investigations are on the way IIRC. That is governed by different legislation. Probably also in the emission frauds there have been at least been "gentlemen" agreements. It's not very convincing that the engineers of the competitors did not understand how some manufacturers achieved their emission values. But also cases related to consumer marketing which should be covered by the self-regulation remain unsatisfactory. It's well known that all manufacturers advertise misleading and unrealistic mileage values that no driver can achieve in real life. So if the majority of the businesses agrees to cheat customers self-regulation just fails. They will just stop newcomers who try to be disruptive in their cheating. In the end every decision could be brought to court. As a matter of fact in the case of self-regulation it would not have even been Tesla who would have needed to appeal a decision. There was no decision, just a request to comply with legislation. They could have just waited whether Wettbewerbszentrale goes to court. That they decided to comply without any court decision tells a lot.
- germanier 8y ago
  It's one of 78 such organisations (and any that fulfil some criteria can be added to the list). Nobody would call e.g. Foodwatch or the ADAC a "German regulator" but they still enjoy exactly the same rights.

Tomte 8y ago

The Wettbewerbszentrale is a bit more than a self-regulating body (and why self-regulating? The "regulated" business aren't members). It has special legal status in that it can start such lawsuits, which normal associations can't.

usr1106 8y ago
I must admit that I don't have a deeper understanding of their members. Can you shed some light of the structure/profile of their 1200 business members and 800 (lobbying) organisation members?
- pjtr 8y ago
  The list of members is here: https://www.wettbewerbszentrale.de/de/institution/mitgliedschaft/mitgliederverzeichnis/ https://www.wettbewerbszentrale.de/de/institution/mitgliedsc... It includes for example Audi, BMW, Daimler, Ford, Opel, Volkswagen, the VDA (Verband der Automobilindustrie; German Association of the Automotive Industry) and the VDIK (Verband der Internationalen Kraftfahrzeughersteller; Association of International Motor Vehicle Manufacturers) VDA members are here: https://www.vda.de/en/association/members.html https://www.vda.de/en/association/members.html VDIK members are here: http://www.vdik.de/members/members.html http://www.vdik.de/members/members.html and include for example Citroën, Fiat, Honda, Hyundai, Jeep, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Peugot, Renault, Saab, Toyota, Volvo...
  - usr1106 8y ago
    OK, so all traditional car manufacturers are there. Tesla is probably not represented and at all or only with a very minimal weight through some association. No surprise they don't accept Tesla's aggressive and misleading marketing, which did not exist in Germany before and is not in compliance with accepted legal practice. On the other hand there are so many competing companies represented there, that similar practices of any single traditional manufacturer would not be accepted either. So I don't see why people reject the characterization of self-regulation. Of course if most of the car manufacturers agree to do something illegal the self-regulation will fail. This has happened in the car manufacturing supply-chain, fines have been imposed and more investigations are on the way IIRC. That is governed by different legislation. Probably also in the emission frauds there have been at least been "gentlemen" agreements. It's not very convincing that the engineers of the competitors did not understand how some manufacturers achieved their emission values. But also cases related to consumer marketing which should be covered by the self-regulation remain unsatisfactory. It's well known that all manufacturers advertise misleading and unrealistic mileage values that no driver can achieve in real life. So if the majority of the businesses agrees to cheat customers self-regulation just fails. They will just stop newcomers who try to be disruptive in their cheating. In the end every decision could be brought to court. As a matter of fact in the case of self-regulation it would not have even been Tesla who would have needed to appeal a decision. There was no decision, just a request to comply with legislation. They could have just waited whether Wettbewerbszentrale goes to court. That they decided to comply without any court decision tells a lot.
germanier 8y ago
It's one of 78 such organisations (and any that fulfil some criteria can be added to the list). Nobody would call e.g. Foodwatch or the ADAC a "German regulator" but they still enjoy exactly the same rights.