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If you're interested in a project which is quite a bit farther along, Appleseed has been in development since 2004, and has a lot of completed features (honestl

If you're interested in a project which is quite a bit farther along, Appleseed has been in development since 2004, and has a lot of completed features (honestly, more features completed than Diaspora even has on it's roadmap). http://opensource.appleseedproject.org http://opensource.appleseedproject.org A lot of times when people think about open source social networking, they think about it in the frame of reference of centralized start-ups: That you need to win over users and grow as big as possible. That's not true, actually. You need to win over administrators, you need to convince them why they should run your software, that your software is flexible, well-written, stable, and infinitely customizable. This is why Appleseed was written as a component-based MVC framework, with clear separation between logic and presentation, and a plugin architecture which allows extensibility, and even the ability to support multiple protocols concurrently. We'll all be compatible in the end, but I think the winner will be the one which attracts third party developers and sysadmins, not the one which initially attracts the most users. Like I've said before, users don't have to care what a Joomla or a Drupal is, and hype isn't nearly as important to open source as many seem to think.

pavs 16y ago
I am not a big fan of Diaspora, but every-time there is a story on diaspora I have seen you plug Appleseed and sometimes badmouth Diaspora. First few times it was ok, not it just feels like spamming. Just because its open source, doesn't mean the project can't be spammed. Maybe there is a better way to promote appleseed.
- michaelchisari 16y ago
  I'm an active member of HN, and I often plug other open source distributed social networking projects as well (ie, GNU Social). I feel, as a participating HN member, I do have a right to talk about my projects, and I usually take the time to discuss philosophical differences between the projects as well, in order to spur discussion, and not simply post a link. I do see distributed social networking as a group effort, and I think the hype is tilted in favor of the weakest link, so I do try and balance that out. If this is an issue, I apologize, but I thought talking about the projects we were working on was why this site exists. If people feel differently, though, I can delete my comments, and not post on related articles anymore.
  - pavs 16y ago
    Its fine. But that wasn't my point. You specifically target Diaspora related stories to plug appleseed. To me that seems like bad form. IMO YMMV
    - michaelchisari 16y ago
      I think if you look at my history, most of the time I plug Appleseed on Facebook stories, but in any case, I'll keep my comments on open source social networking more abstract, and not mention my project from now on, if people feel it's inappropriate.
      - _pius 16y ago
        I think it's well worth mentioning your project and I hope you continue to do so. It's useful to put the Diaspora hype in perspective and let people know that there are other mature projects in active development as well.
      - noblethrasher 16y ago
        I also encourage you to keep Appleseed on the radar in this way. It makes sense to mention Appleseed when a bunch of people who are interested in discussing social networking (especially opensource options) are nearby.
  - DanielRibeiro 16y ago
    I like knowing the alternatives. Unfortunately, without news on the most mainstream stuff, the most unknown alternatives never surface. Therefore I really appreciate comments like this.
- jamesteow 16y ago
  Considering this guy is doing it without the hype AND 200k of funding from the get go, I'm totally fine with him promoting his project.
makmanalp 16y ago
It seems like even though your project is further ahead, Diaspora is getting more press. Why is that so?
- michaelchisari 16y ago
  Inertia, and a misunderstanding of open source. People are seeing Diaspora through the lens of a Facebook competitor. But the reality is much less sexy. It's not like Myspace vs. Facebook, it's more like Sendmail/SMTP vs. AOL. When those walls came down, there wasn't a major corporate battle, no intrepid garage programmer wizard standing against goliath, just the ability for anyone to run their own email server with a very low barrier to entry. That's what all open source social networking projects are building, but the tech press doesn't have a good template for reporting on that, and instead I think focus on something that fits their pre-defined narrative.
anthonyb 16y ago
> You need to win over administrators, you need to convince them why they should run your software, that your software is flexible, well-written, stable, and infinitely customizable. I think that's almost exactly backwards - you just have to look at the proliferation of PHP and MySQL for a counterexample. They're installed everywhere, and have been for the past decade, because people use them - not because they're stable or well written. And development tools aren't even particularly viral - unlike a social network. Whatever the reasons for Appleseed's lack of hype, I don't think features or maintainability have much to do with it. An interesting sidenote - Facebook has also been in development since 2004 ;)

pavs 16y ago

I am not a big fan of Diaspora, but every-time there is a story on diaspora I have seen you plug Appleseed and sometimes badmouth Diaspora. First few times it was ok, not it just feels like spamming. Just because its open source, doesn't mean the project can't be spammed. Maybe there is a better way to promote appleseed.

michaelchisari 16y ago
I'm an active member of HN, and I often plug other open source distributed social networking projects as well (ie, GNU Social). I feel, as a participating HN member, I do have a right to talk about my projects, and I usually take the time to discuss philosophical differences between the projects as well, in order to spur discussion, and not simply post a link. I do see distributed social networking as a group effort, and I think the hype is tilted in favor of the weakest link, so I do try and balance that out. If this is an issue, I apologize, but I thought talking about the projects we were working on was why this site exists. If people feel differently, though, I can delete my comments, and not post on related articles anymore.
- pavs 16y ago
  Its fine. But that wasn't my point. You specifically target Diaspora related stories to plug appleseed. To me that seems like bad form. IMO YMMV
  - michaelchisari 16y ago
    I think if you look at my history, most of the time I plug Appleseed on Facebook stories, but in any case, I'll keep my comments on open source social networking more abstract, and not mention my project from now on, if people feel it's inappropriate.
    - _pius 16y ago
      I think it's well worth mentioning your project and I hope you continue to do so. It's useful to put the Diaspora hype in perspective and let people know that there are other mature projects in active development as well.
    - noblethrasher 16y ago
      I also encourage you to keep Appleseed on the radar in this way. It makes sense to mention Appleseed when a bunch of people who are interested in discussing social networking (especially opensource options) are nearby.
- DanielRibeiro 16y ago
  I like knowing the alternatives. Unfortunately, without news on the most mainstream stuff, the most unknown alternatives never surface. Therefore I really appreciate comments like this.
jamesteow 16y ago
Considering this guy is doing it without the hype AND 200k of funding from the get go, I'm totally fine with him promoting his project.

makmanalp 16y ago

It seems like even though your project is further ahead, Diaspora is getting more press. Why is that so?

michaelchisari 16y ago
Inertia, and a misunderstanding of open source. People are seeing Diaspora through the lens of a Facebook competitor. But the reality is much less sexy. It's not like Myspace vs. Facebook, it's more like Sendmail/SMTP vs. AOL. When those walls came down, there wasn't a major corporate battle, no intrepid garage programmer wizard standing against goliath, just the ability for anyone to run their own email server with a very low barrier to entry. That's what all open source social networking projects are building, but the tech press doesn't have a good template for reporting on that, and instead I think focus on something that fits their pre-defined narrative.

anthonyb 16y ago

> You need to win over administrators, you need to convince them why they should run your software, that your software is flexible, well-written, stable, and infinitely customizable. I think that's almost exactly backwards - you just have to look at the proliferation of PHP and MySQL for a counterexample. They're installed everywhere, and have been for the past decade, because people use them - not because they're stable or well written. And development tools aren't even particularly viral - unlike a social network. Whatever the reasons for Appleseed's lack of hype, I don't think features or maintainability have much to do with it. An interesting sidenote - Facebook has also been in development since 2004 ;)