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If you or others you know of are involved in any of these kangaroo court type situations, it does help to hire an attorney to try to get these kinds of proceedi

If you or others you know of are involved in any of these kangaroo court type situations, it does help to hire an attorney to try to get these kinds of proceedings taken out of the kangaroo court system whenever possible and as soon as possible. This goes for both companies with internal kangaroo courts and universities with internal kangaroo courts. If you allow yourself to be placed at the mercy of these kinds of systems, you are going to get clowned on because they are designed to achieve that goal and to prevent you from pressing whatever actual legal rights you may have. If you are on "trial" in a kangaroo court system you have to recognize that the court trappings are there to disarm you, convince you to do things against your interest, and to railroad an outcome that benefits the institution and not you.

joecool1029 8y ago
> If you or others you know of are involved in any of these kangaroo court type situations, it does help to hire an attorney to try to get these kinds of proceedings taken out of the kangaroo court system whenever possible and as soon as possible. Understand that in the US students have no rights to challenge a college's rulings, whether it be a public or private institution. They can absolutely do arbitrary decisions like expel you. I was in this situation. A friend did a stupid thing and police were called. I had filed a witness statement with the police as supporting evidence that the stupid thing he did was not malicious. Instead of a criminal charge, he got a petty disorderly persons charge. School didn't like that, the police got their blood but the administration wanted to power trip. As I was signing up for classes for next semester, I noticed the system had a financial hold on my account. So I contacted the dean of academics, which responded by email saying that by student handbook regulations I would have to give an account of what happened on school grounds, this was procedural and no charges were being brought against me. I go to give my account with other student witness, the 'kangeroo court' was made up of 50% administration, 50% student body. I was given a school advocate. I told them they had an official account from my police witness statement. They informed me that they were looking to sanction me, but wouldn't state what they would do that day. I told them the dean had said there would be no charges against me, I was literally only a witness. I demanded due process, claiming that since I hadn't been informed of potential charges/sanctions I wasn't given the opportunity to retain legal advice. They said they didn't have to abide by any sort of due process. I had to wait a week for the outcome of the tribunal to come in the mail. I was to have my records marred by the event, would be forced to do an absurd number of community service hours, letters of apology, and a paper about the event. I hired an attorney and spent 2 years in civil courts fighting. The school retaliated by expelling me. They also did things like tell the other witness that they would have reduced his sanctions, but because I was challenging them he would have to serve out the full amounts. It was a gigantic waste of time and money. I did get my credits out and was able to continue on with my life but there was no other upside to this. The disgust I have for US university administration knows no bounds. Going to university in the US is like living in a concentration camp: the goal is not to challenge the masters, but rather to keep one's head down and survive. EDIT: Best part of the above. School couldn't touch the guy who was charged. He paid a small fine and the record was sealed after a year of no charges. Through the entire ordeal I had the support of my fellow students and the faculty that believed such things were not possible. It absolutely is and I have a large stack of court precedent detailing prior cases that have gone to trial where the school was affirmed in its absolute power over students.
- jnwatson 8y ago
  As I understand it, state universities are bound by law a bit more than private ones. I was adjacent to a similar situation that led to a student being improperly involuntarily committed. I got a real attorney involved and they eventually settled with the state for a full ride at a different state university. It took a long time though.
  - joecool1029 8y ago
    >As I understand it, state universities are bound by law a bit more than private ones. FWIW, the above happened at a state one. Maybe I could have had a better outcome if I could tolerate another year or two of court. It did not help in my case that the original judge retired and new one was pushing hard for a settlement.
- sfopdxnonstop 8y ago
  Your goal at college was to "challenge your masters"? Why oh why wouldn't they want that kind of person around? Challenge masters on your own time, or when they invite it. Otherwise they aren't there for your shenanigans.
blackflame7000 8y ago
I hired an attorney and took my case all the way to the city school-board. Lost by a 3-1 decision, was Expelled and still owed the lawyer 12k. (See my other post for more details)
- sfopdxnonstop 8y ago
  I had an incident on the way out of high school. Mom hired a lawyer and wanted to fight but I didn't g.a.f. I went off to college and didn't look back. Saved the lawyer fee, never cared.
sleepysysadmin 8y ago
A PHD student with large amounts of debt can't afford a lawyer is why they get away with it.

joecool1029 8y ago

> If you or others you know of are involved in any of these kangaroo court type situations, it does help to hire an attorney to try to get these kinds of proceedings taken out of the kangaroo court system whenever possible and as soon as possible. Understand that in the US students have no rights to challenge a college's rulings, whether it be a public or private institution. They can absolutely do arbitrary decisions like expel you. I was in this situation. A friend did a stupid thing and police were called. I had filed a witness statement with the police as supporting evidence that the stupid thing he did was not malicious. Instead of a criminal charge, he got a petty disorderly persons charge. School didn't like that, the police got their blood but the administration wanted to power trip. As I was signing up for classes for next semester, I noticed the system had a financial hold on my account. So I contacted the dean of academics, which responded by email saying that by student handbook regulations I would have to give an account of what happened on school grounds, this was procedural and no charges were being brought against me. I go to give my account with other student witness, the 'kangeroo court' was made up of 50% administration, 50% student body. I was given a school advocate. I told them they had an official account from my police witness statement. They informed me that they were looking to sanction me, but wouldn't state what they would do that day. I told them the dean had said there would be no charges against me, I was literally only a witness. I demanded due process, claiming that since I hadn't been informed of potential charges/sanctions I wasn't given the opportunity to retain legal advice. They said they didn't have to abide by any sort of due process. I had to wait a week for the outcome of the tribunal to come in the mail. I was to have my records marred by the event, would be forced to do an absurd number of community service hours, letters of apology, and a paper about the event. I hired an attorney and spent 2 years in civil courts fighting. The school retaliated by expelling me. They also did things like tell the other witness that they would have reduced his sanctions, but because I was challenging them he would have to serve out the full amounts. It was a gigantic waste of time and money. I did get my credits out and was able to continue on with my life but there was no other upside to this. The disgust I have for US university administration knows no bounds. Going to university in the US is like living in a concentration camp: the goal is not to challenge the masters, but rather to keep one's head down and survive. EDIT: Best part of the above. School couldn't touch the guy who was charged. He paid a small fine and the record was sealed after a year of no charges. Through the entire ordeal I had the support of my fellow students and the faculty that believed such things were not possible. It absolutely is and I have a large stack of court precedent detailing prior cases that have gone to trial where the school was affirmed in its absolute power over students.

jnwatson 8y ago
As I understand it, state universities are bound by law a bit more than private ones. I was adjacent to a similar situation that led to a student being improperly involuntarily committed. I got a real attorney involved and they eventually settled with the state for a full ride at a different state university. It took a long time though.
- joecool1029 8y ago
  >As I understand it, state universities are bound by law a bit more than private ones. FWIW, the above happened at a state one. Maybe I could have had a better outcome if I could tolerate another year or two of court. It did not help in my case that the original judge retired and new one was pushing hard for a settlement.
sfopdxnonstop 8y ago
Your goal at college was to "challenge your masters"? Why oh why wouldn't they want that kind of person around? Challenge masters on your own time, or when they invite it. Otherwise they aren't there for your shenanigans.

blackflame7000 8y ago

I hired an attorney and took my case all the way to the city school-board. Lost by a 3-1 decision, was Expelled and still owed the lawyer 12k. (See my other post for more details)

sfopdxnonstop 8y ago
I had an incident on the way out of high school. Mom hired a lawyer and wanted to fight but I didn't g.a.f. I went off to college and didn't look back. Saved the lawyer fee, never cared.

sleepysysadmin 8y ago

A PHD student with large amounts of debt can't afford a lawyer is why they get away with it.