4 ms·

All of those things are still true in certain contexts. Java is verbose compared to Kotlin or Ruby. Java is slow at initial JVM launch. Many 2005-era enterpr

All of those things are still true in certain contexts. Java is verbose compared to Kotlin or Ruby. Java is slow at initial JVM launch. Many 2005-era enterprise coding practices are still in very wide use for new projects.

coldtea 8y ago
>Java is verbose compared to Kotlin or Ruby. True. But Kotlin was developed with 20+ years of hindsight, and Ruby is dynamic and pays by being slow for many of its higher level features that make it less verbose. And even Java is much less verbose today, with "var" and "closures", and functional interfaces, and auto inference. The main cause of verbosity in Java code was BS J2EE fashion (throw in all kinds of Patterns to make it "enterprise"). This -- the 2005-era practices as you say, are more or less a thing of the past now. Are some of them in use for new projects? In some sure, you can't immediately erase the influence of a decade of code and tutorials and such. But e.g. even J2EE itself in later versions got rewritten in a different style, Spring today leverages the new features and stuff like Annotations, verbose XML everything has fallen out of favor, etc.
ulkesh 8y ago
> Many 2005-era enterprise coding practices are still in very wide use for new projects Just because something is older doesn't mean it's not still useful. Many developers these days hold an odd kind of logical fallacy that if something hasn't been done in the last few years, it's outmoded completely. Many concepts still hold high value dating back 40 or 50 years.
- nitrogen 8y ago
  I agree completely that age is not a bad thing, and that "trendiness" is not really a good thing. ButWhenYourClassNamesStartToFollowThisPatternAndOutlengthSomeNovels, or your app compiles fine but fails at runtime due to the use of annotations and erased types, you might be using enterprise Java.

4 ms·

All of those things are still true in certain contexts. Java is verbose compared to Kotlin or Ruby. Java is slow at initial JVM launch. Many 2005-era enterpr

by nitrogen 8y ago

coldtea 8y ago
>Java is verbose compared to Kotlin or Ruby. True. But Kotlin was developed with 20+ years of hindsight, and Ruby is dynamic and pays by being slow for many of its higher level features that make it less verbose. And even Java is much less verbose today, with "var" and "closures", and functional interfaces, and auto inference. The main cause of verbosity in Java code was BS J2EE fashion (throw in all kinds of Patterns to make it "enterprise"). This -- the 2005-era practices as you say, are more or less a thing of the past now. Are some of them in use for new projects? In some sure, you can't immediately erase the influence of a decade of code and tutorials and such. But e.g. even J2EE itself in later versions got rewritten in a different style, Spring today leverages the new features and stuff like Annotations, verbose XML everything has fallen out of favor, etc.
ulkesh 8y ago
> Many 2005-era enterprise coding practices are still in very wide use for new projects Just because something is older doesn't mean it's not still useful. Many developers these days hold an odd kind of logical fallacy that if something hasn't been done in the last few years, it's outmoded completely. Many concepts still hold high value dating back 40 or 50 years.
- nitrogen 8y ago
  I agree completely that age is not a bad thing, and that "trendiness" is not really a good thing. ButWhenYourClassNamesStartToFollowThisPatternAndOutlengthSomeNovels, or your app compiles fine but fails at runtime due to the use of annotations and erased types, you might be using enterprise Java.