4 ms·

> You suggest to look at each EU country individually (just also keep in mind that there are no border controls beetween the EU countries in the Schengen Zone).

by ardy42 8y ago

> You suggest to look at each EU country individually (just also keep in mind that there are no border controls beetween the EU countries in the Schengen Zone). In such case, should we also look at each US state individually (because they are also not uniform US states have no foreign relations. There's no Californian embassy in Sofia, but there is a Bulgarian embassy in Washington. No American travels on a Californian passport, but Bulgarians travel on Bulgarian passports. If you want foreign countries to treat the EU as a single diplomatic unit, then all the EU member-state embassies should probably be closed and replaced with EU embassies, and all member-state passports should be replaced with generic EU passports.

mpweiher 8y ago
Why? The EU and its member states are free to organize themselves any way they see fit, and states can decide on collective action, see NATO article 5.
- ardy42 8y ago
  The US is also free to organize its policies as it sees fit. If the EU really doesn't want the US to treat its member states as diplomatically separate entities, due to treaties the US was not party to, then it should stop holding them out as separate entities and present an unambiguously unified front. As a practical matter, no country could subject citizens of different EU member states to different visa policies if they all had identical passports. That's exactly the situation with American passports.
  - mpweiher 8y ago
    > The US is also free to organize its policies as it sees fit. Yep. And then you get disagreements and tit-for-tat. Just don't claim that the US's policies are in some way more legitimate. > then it should stop holding Says who? On whose authority? If the US wants its citizens to be treated uniformly, then it shouldn't give out per-state driver's licenses.
    - ardy42 8y ago
      > Says who? On whose authority? The authority or reasonableness and practicality. > If the US wants its citizens to be treated uniformly, then it shouldn't give out per-state driver's licenses. It may be news to you, but those aren't travel documents and are nonstandardized to boot. But if you think the EU should wade into that mess, I guess you're entitled to your opinion. Also, it's probably worth noting treating Americans as citizens of their state and not the US for immigration purposes is totally unprecedented in the modern era of passports. On the other hand, the precedent over the same period has been to treat Europeans as citizens of their member states and not of an undifferentiated EU.
felipelemos 8y ago
The United States of America is a entity comprised of several states, each one with it's own constitution and judicial court, while there is a central government with it's own constitution and juridical court. So does the European Union.
- myrandomcomment 8y ago
  You are splitting hairs. As the other commenter said there is no formal foreign relationships between a US state and other nations. I cannot travel on a California passport. No US state has a seat in the UN, but the individual members of the EU do. I am not saying the EU is not correct for this change, but your argument does not hold up at all.
Const-me 8y ago
> EU member-state embassies should probably be closed and replaced with EU embassies It's fairly close to how it works. If you live in Montenegro and need any EU visa, you go to Slovenian embassy. Even if you'll visit Spain or Ireland.

by ardy42 8y ago

mpweiher 8y ago

Why? The EU and its member states are free to organize themselves any way they see fit, and states can decide on collective action, see NATO article 5.

ardy42 8y ago
The US is also free to organize its policies as it sees fit. If the EU really doesn't want the US to treat its member states as diplomatically separate entities, due to treaties the US was not party to, then it should stop holding them out as separate entities and present an unambiguously unified front. As a practical matter, no country could subject citizens of different EU member states to different visa policies if they all had identical passports. That's exactly the situation with American passports.
- mpweiher 8y ago
  > The US is also free to organize its policies as it sees fit. Yep. And then you get disagreements and tit-for-tat. Just don't claim that the US's policies are in some way more legitimate. > then it should stop holding Says who? On whose authority? If the US wants its citizens to be treated uniformly, then it shouldn't give out per-state driver's licenses.
  - ardy42 8y ago
    > Says who? On whose authority? The authority or reasonableness and practicality. > If the US wants its citizens to be treated uniformly, then it shouldn't give out per-state driver's licenses. It may be news to you, but those aren't travel documents and are nonstandardized to boot. But if you think the EU should wade into that mess, I guess you're entitled to your opinion. Also, it's probably worth noting treating Americans as citizens of their state and not the US for immigration purposes is totally unprecedented in the modern era of passports. On the other hand, the precedent over the same period has been to treat Europeans as citizens of their member states and not of an undifferentiated EU.

felipelemos 8y ago

The United States of America is a entity comprised of several states, each one with it's own constitution and judicial court, while there is a central government with it's own constitution and juridical court. So does the European Union.

myrandomcomment 8y ago
You are splitting hairs. As the other commenter said there is no formal foreign relationships between a US state and other nations. I cannot travel on a California passport. No US state has a seat in the UN, but the individual members of the EU do. I am not saying the EU is not correct for this change, but your argument does not hold up at all.

Const-me 8y ago

> EU member-state embassies should probably be closed and replaced with EU embassies It's fairly close to how it works. If you live in Montenegro and need any EU visa, you go to Slovenian embassy. Even if you'll visit Spain or Ireland.