6 ms·

are you ok with EU imposing visas for some US states and not for others?

ajmurmann 8y ago
I'm more than OK with that. Especially given that I have a pretty good idea what state Europeans are more likely to have a critical opinion of.
erentz 8y ago
How would they do that given US states do not have citizens or passports?
- toast0 8y ago
  Use state of birth, if it's encoded on the passports, and if not, require a visa from everyone until state of birth is encoded on the passports. As a point of order, US states do have citizens. As a US citizen, I'm also a citizen of the state in which I reside.
  - virtualwhys 8y ago
    You're a resident of the state in which you reside. I have never heard anyone say, for example, "I am a citizen of the state of Massachusetts". That you can move to another state and claim residency there implies what residency is, transient, whereas citizenship is permanent.
    - toast0 8y ago
      The fourteenth amendment states "All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
  - erentz 8y ago
    So someone born in Morocco who moved to France and became a French citizen should be denied visa free entry to the US because their citizenship by your standard is actually Moroccan.
    - sratner 8y ago
      It's what US already does for immigrant visas (referred to as "country of chargeability"), so there is precedent.
    - masonic 8y ago
      If that birth was before 1994, that person has French citizenship anyway, if a parent was born before Moroccan Independence.
  - sgc 8y ago
    You are a resident, not citizen of your state. Citizenship as defined means being a member of a country. Passport and visa regimes are based on that.
    - toast0 8y ago
      Passport and Visa regimes are often based on citizenship or place of birth in addition to passport origin. Also, the fourteenth amendment says "All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
      - sgc 8y ago
        I stand corrected on the internal us terminology. But the dictionary definition of citizenship refers to country. Do you have one example of a visa regime which differentiates between different locations within a country?
        toast0 8y ago
        Here's are a couple articles about China's special visa practices for people from the Jammu and Kashmir region of India in 2009. [1] [2] I wasn't aware of this contemporaneously, so I don't know quite what it was about, but it sounds like if you were from Jammu and Kashmir, your visa would be issued as a paper visa, and if you were from the rest of India, it would be issued as a stamp. A quick look at sample US passports indicates place of birth including state, so it would be feasible to implement. My dictionary [3] has many definitions for citizen, none of which are very specific about being ascribed to a country, although the example does use a country: > 1 : an inhabitant of a city or town especially : one entitled to the rights and privileges of a freeman > 2a : a member of a state > b : a native or naturalized person who owes allegiance to a government and is entitled to protection from it > // She was an American citizen but lived most of her life abroad. > 3 : a civilian as distinguished from a specialized servant of the state > // Soldiers were sent to protect the citizens. [1] https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/nri/visa-and-immigration/china-hints-at-scrapping-stapled-visa-for-jammu-and-kashmir-people/articleshow/7970880.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/nri/visa-and-immigratio... [2] http://blogs.reuters.com/india/2009/10/02/why-is-china-issuing-separate-visas-to-residents-of-indian-kashmir/ http://blogs.reuters.com/india/2009/10/02/why-is-china-issui... [3] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/citizen https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/citizen
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]

I'm more than OK with that. Especially given that I have a pretty good idea what state Europeans are more likely to have a critical opinion of.

erentz 8y ago

How would they do that given US states do not have citizens or passports?

toast0 8y ago
Use state of birth, if it's encoded on the passports, and if not, require a visa from everyone until state of birth is encoded on the passports. As a point of order, US states do have citizens. As a US citizen, I'm also a citizen of the state in which I reside.
- virtualwhys 8y ago
  You're a resident of the state in which you reside. I have never heard anyone say, for example, "I am a citizen of the state of Massachusetts". That you can move to another state and claim residency there implies what residency is, transient, whereas citizenship is permanent.
  - toast0 8y ago
    The fourteenth amendment states "All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
- erentz 8y ago
  So someone born in Morocco who moved to France and became a French citizen should be denied visa free entry to the US because their citizenship by your standard is actually Moroccan.
  - sratner 8y ago
    It's what US already does for immigrant visas (referred to as "country of chargeability"), so there is precedent.
  - masonic 8y ago
    If that birth was before 1994, that person has French citizenship anyway, if a parent was born before Moroccan Independence.
- sgc 8y ago
  You are a resident, not citizen of your state. Citizenship as defined means being a member of a country. Passport and visa regimes are based on that.
  - toast0 8y ago
    Passport and Visa regimes are often based on citizenship or place of birth in addition to passport origin. Also, the fourteenth amendment says "All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
    - sgc 8y ago
      I stand corrected on the internal us terminology. But the dictionary definition of citizenship refers to country. Do you have one example of a visa regime which differentiates between different locations within a country?
      - toast0 8y ago
        Here's are a couple articles about China's special visa practices for people from the Jammu and Kashmir region of India in 2009. [1] [2] I wasn't aware of this contemporaneously, so I don't know quite what it was about, but it sounds like if you were from Jammu and Kashmir, your visa would be issued as a paper visa, and if you were from the rest of India, it would be issued as a stamp. A quick look at sample US passports indicates place of birth including state, so it would be feasible to implement. My dictionary [3] has many definitions for citizen, none of which are very specific about being ascribed to a country, although the example does use a country: > 1 : an inhabitant of a city or town especially : one entitled to the rights and privileges of a freeman > 2a : a member of a state > b : a native or naturalized person who owes allegiance to a government and is entitled to protection from it > // She was an American citizen but lived most of her life abroad. > 3 : a civilian as distinguished from a specialized servant of the state > // Soldiers were sent to protect the citizens. [1] https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/nri/visa-and-immigration/china-hints-at-scrapping-stapled-visa-for-jammu-and-kashmir-people/articleshow/7970880.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/nri/visa-and-immigratio... [2] http://blogs.reuters.com/india/2009/10/02/why-is-china-issuing-separate-visas-to-residents-of-indian-kashmir/ http://blogs.reuters.com/india/2009/10/02/why-is-china-issui... [3] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/citizen https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/citizen
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]