4 ms·

>My point is not that everyone has that support system, but that it doesn't take much I vehemently disagree with this. Not sure how we could continue to discu

by ses1984 8y ago

>My point is not that everyone has that support system, but that it doesn't take much I vehemently disagree with this. Not sure how we could continue to discuss if we can't see eye to eye on this basic point. >Telling people they shouldn't have kids--which would end up as telling poor people and minorities that they can't afford kids--isn't a replacement for offering support such as childcare. Who said we should be so prescriptive? I think just raising awareness would be enough to move the needle. You can do that AND offer support.

zanny 8y ago
This mindset is crucial. It doesn't make much to meet the bare minimum legal requirements of parenting. It takes a ton to produce thriving minds capable of excelling in the encroaching post-labor reality. So many people treat parenthood as a checkmark on the mandatory itinerary of life and once they check it off they just "eat the cost" and pay to have the kids taken care of. Both those parents, and the poor parents who cannot afford the state / capitalist solutions to child rearing, are being negligent. Kids need familial bonds and constant social contact with their kin group to thrive. You don't drop them at random daycares every day for eight hours starting at six months and produce healthy progeny. Raising kids is at least a part time job for both parents. Not in monetary expenses, in time. Putting in less than that at any point before pubescence can be catastrophic to the growth of the child. But as a society, because that cost is for most people untenable, they still want to "fulfill their obligation" to past generations, and have kids they cannot adequately allocate time for and end up producing descendants who suffer throughout life for it. It is an absolute real conversation that needs to be had, that the true cost of parenthood is astronomical in todays society, and that almost nobody is in a financial position to fulfill that obligation such that they aren't risking harm to the child. We haven't had an adequate availability of time on the part of both parents to raise their children since 80% of the population were agrarian farmers* and we have seen rampant expanse of mental illness and maladjustment to society for it ever since. * of course said farmers were very rarely good parents. Using your kids as hard labor from a young age, using violence as a coercion tactic against them, treating them like property and an investment rather than people, not feeding their curiosity or inquisitiveness out of your own ignorance and simple mindedness taught by your parents. It was a real mess that compulsory public education in part did a lot to stop, but that doesn't preclude the availability of parents and family being so critical to the well-being of young minds while also being absent from contemporary society for the vast majority of children.
- harryh 8y ago
  LOL, this is ridiculous. My dad worked crazy hours so I didn't see him a ton when I was a kid. My mom worked too. I went to daycare. I went to school. I watched a ton of TV. I turned out just fine. Most of these crazy "investments" that people are putting in their kids has virtually no long term impact. You should read The Nurture Assumption.
  - jelliclesfarm 8y ago
    I mean..you say that you turned out fine. Self referential = not evidence.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - ses1984 8y ago
    My original point was more trying to emphasize the impact on lower and middle class parents' lives to provide basic care while working full time, than the ballooning costs of care that upper class parents choose to spend.

zanny 8y ago

This mindset is crucial. It doesn't make much to meet the bare minimum legal requirements of parenting. It takes a ton to produce thriving minds capable of excelling in the encroaching post-labor reality. So many people treat parenthood as a checkmark on the mandatory itinerary of life and once they check it off they just "eat the cost" and pay to have the kids taken care of. Both those parents, and the poor parents who cannot afford the state / capitalist solutions to child rearing, are being negligent. Kids need familial bonds and constant social contact with their kin group to thrive. You don't drop them at random daycares every day for eight hours starting at six months and produce healthy progeny. Raising kids is at least a part time job for both parents. Not in monetary expenses, in time. Putting in less than that at any point before pubescence can be catastrophic to the growth of the child. But as a society, because that cost is for most people untenable, they still want to "fulfill their obligation" to past generations, and have kids they cannot adequately allocate time for and end up producing descendants who suffer throughout life for it. It is an absolute real conversation that needs to be had, that the true cost of parenthood is astronomical in todays society, and that almost nobody is in a financial position to fulfill that obligation such that they aren't risking harm to the child. We haven't had an adequate availability of time on the part of both parents to raise their children since 80% of the population were agrarian farmers* and we have seen rampant expanse of mental illness and maladjustment to society for it ever since. * of course said farmers were very rarely good parents. Using your kids as hard labor from a young age, using violence as a coercion tactic against them, treating them like property and an investment rather than people, not feeding their curiosity or inquisitiveness out of your own ignorance and simple mindedness taught by your parents. It was a real mess that compulsory public education in part did a lot to stop, but that doesn't preclude the availability of parents and family being so critical to the well-being of young minds while also being absent from contemporary society for the vast majority of children.

harryh 8y ago
LOL, this is ridiculous. My dad worked crazy hours so I didn't see him a ton when I was a kid. My mom worked too. I went to daycare. I went to school. I watched a ton of TV. I turned out just fine. Most of these crazy "investments" that people are putting in their kids has virtually no long term impact. You should read The Nurture Assumption.
- jelliclesfarm 8y ago
  I mean..you say that you turned out fine. Self referential = not evidence.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- ses1984 8y ago
  My original point was more trying to emphasize the impact on lower and middle class parents' lives to provide basic care while working full time, than the ballooning costs of care that upper class parents choose to spend.